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Thread: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

  1. #11
    RBW Member MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent's Avatar
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    rEvo micro FT

    new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth  View Original Post
    Apparently whether something is CE tested makes a difference to some. Does it matter here?
    I dive a rEvo and am based in Australia.

    The only difference between it and a CE approved version is that it has a standard DIN fitting on the O2 instead of the M26 fitting.

    I understand the reason for an M26 (differs the O2 from DIL) and have even had an event where M26 would have prevented a DIL topup of my O2 (became suspicious when the tank had 200 bar fill) due to the fill monkey assuming it was there for an air fill. However in most cases having a different fill adapter is just a pain in the butt.

    Getting back to the question, I'm happy that the unit is basically tested to CE. By the same token some of the CE requirements don't add a lot to the unit.

  2. #12
    RBW Member NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB's Avatar
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    JJ-CCR

    Re: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeRodent  View Original Post
    I can think of 3 that I currently own:
    Suunto, OSTC, Shearwater.

    Add to that a quick rundown of CCR compatible computer manufacturers that I don't own:
    Posieden, JM, liquid vision, seabear, AV1.

    And that's not even mentioning the non-CCR options such as Mares, Oceanic etc.
    Or the mythical unicorn iCCR controller (doesn't actually count given pdf's aren't interactive).

    I've already doubled your count and I'm sure I've missed a lot.
    Particularly that he was referring to computer manufacturers, not dive computers.

  3. #13
    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
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    Re: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by taliena  View Original Post
    So what is important to buy one of the newcoming unites on the market and what let them stay on the market?
    I have no clue why people keep launching "new", highly derivative designs, really been nothing new of valued since the late 90's IMO (ECCR, MCCR, ADV, BOV, BMCL, FMCL etc all products on the last century)
    Loads of useless, sticking-plaster "solutions" that reduce reliability and the user experience (CO2 sensors, Back-to-base only servicing, excessive monitors/monitoring etc) and excessive training levels wedged in to try and flog CCR to the recreational market as white-goods, which they are NOT.

    I wouldn't touch a New unit with a barge-pole, give them a few years for the beta testers (customers) to find the bugs and the MK2 come out with the fixes

    Despite all this there isn't a viable MCCR on the market at present so we make our own while the ECCR's are hardly any better than 20yrs ago.


    Too many sellers of The Emporers New Clothes.

  4. #14
    New Member Bazza has a spectacular aura about Bazza has a spectacular aura about Bazza has a spectacular aura about Bazza has a spectacular aura about Bazza has a spectacular aura about Bazza's Avatar
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    Re: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    Ben ... absolutely spot on ... regards Baz

  5. #15
    RBW Member NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB has a spectacular aura about NickB's Avatar
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    JJ-CCR

    Re: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    ...ECCR's are hardly any better than 20yrs ago.
    Good post Ben, but what are you looking for as a quantum leap in ECCR development?

    Clearly, reliable solid-state sensors would be great but still a way off especially as Arne seems to have other things to do and Poseidon aren't sharing the love.

    Other than that, what do we really need to improve? My DiveCAN JJ is better than my old analogue one and hasn't missed a beat in the 18 months I've had it. I can't think of anything I'd like to add or change on it* that would improve my diving experience.

    *over the changes I've made already, which are replacing the backplate and harness with a Halcyon one with Cinch and replacing the plastic SPGs with sexy brass ones.

    Oh, and adding a NERD.

  6. #16
    RBW Member das will become famous soon enough das will become famous soon enough das will become famous soon enough das will become famous soon enough das's Avatar
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    Re: new brands of rebreathers, what makes them to survive or not?

    So where do rebreather manufacturers add value. I will submit that the key components to a modern rebreather that manufacturers add value are the set point controller, lowering work of breathing (WOB) and overall reliability.

    In order to have a long term business model one must own or control all these key technologies in order to differentiate oneself in the market.

    Rebreather manufacturers are evolving into two camps. Those who do R & D and produce their own set point controllers, do research to lower WOB and increase reliability and those who simply put together third party parts. In all cases those who produce their own set point controller do extensive (read expensive) third party testing. In a few cases those who bolt together parts do limited third party testing, most do none. As a consumer, which businesses do you think are in it for the long haul.

    The market is beginning to chose winners and losers. You see that in sales in the secondary market. Which units hold value and which units don't. Which units are introduced and then about a year later used instructor units flood the market. Which manufacturers do you think will stay in business.

    Fanboys aside, there is no perfect rebreather. There are however manufacturers that have a product and a business model that is viable long term. Do you own one of those?

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