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Thread: Second hand certification police

  1. #21
    RBW Member SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver's Avatar
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    Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Name one dead CCR diver who didnt have a cert card.



    ATB



    Mark

    Wes Skiles comes to mind. And still in legations.


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  2. #22
    RBW Member Dr. Lecter is an unknown quantity at this point Dr. Lecter's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    By checking at all, an affirmative act you have no legal obligation to take, you've burdened yourself with a duty to the buyer you would otherwise not have had: to do a reasonable, non-negligent job of verifying their having completed a certification course on the unit you're selling (arguably in the configuration in which you're selling it). The legally safest approach in the U.S. as a private seller is to disclaim everything and tell the buyer not to dive it without appropriate training - put a promise on their part not to dive it without training in the bill of sale if you like and have them sign it. But in my completely non-legal advice 'advice'...don't make whether they get the unit from you dependent on anything but whether their check clears.



    If you think you have a moral duty to buyers that's more important than covering your ass legally, do whatever makes you feel all warm and fuzzy. But playing c-card police is exposing yourself to liability, not protecting you from it.
    Last edited by Dr. Lecter; 5th September 2014 at 19:52.

  3. #23
    Cave Country Dive Shop Jim Wyatt is an unknown quantity at this point Jim Wyatt's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    I would not sell one of my rEvos to anyone who could not show proof of certification on a rEvo unless they assured me they were scheduled to take a class to get certified on the rEvo. I would verify that with the instructor.

    Also, I would not "loan" or sell a cave diving rig to anyone who was not a cave diver as was the case 12/25/13.

    Of course the question is: How would I know what their intentions really are? Once again I would verify with a cave instructor that the person had indeed scheduled a cave diving class with them.

    All of it would be in writing, at a minimum through e-mail.

  4. #24
    Down to no good kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter's Avatar
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    Second hand certification police

    I really think this is an instructor thing for the most part. There is an additional level of liability with someone who is certified to train others and has a responsibility agreement with a training agency. I understand completely why Jim or other instructors would not sell to an uncertified individual, or would insist on sending it to the intended instructor.

    But there is also a big difference between someone who knows nothing about rebreathers and someone who is certified on one or 2 or 5 other rebreathers and then wants to buy a different one. It isn't like Mark's example of a car. It is more like a plane. Pilots get checked out on different aircraft. I wouldn't expect someone to sell a Lear jet to a Cessna pilot without some liability release. But a similar prop plane should be no problem.

    I don't think anyone has ever questioned certification before sending a rebreather to Tom Mount.

    iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.
    Last edited by kwinter; 6th September 2014 at 12:21.
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  5. #25
    Scuba Imports Australia Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris is a name known to all Chris's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    Mike
    I am about to put one of my rEvo's up for sale.
    Let me know if you want it, I do not require poof of certification, I know you can dive

    Cheers
    Chriso

  6. #26
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDiver  View Original Post
    Wes Skiles comes to mind. And still in legations.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    He was certtified on the Meg and the Mk15.5 and had been diving since 1978

    He was probably diving CCR before most of us knew what they were

    ATB

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Chase; 7th September 2014 at 22:37.

  7. #27
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Wyatt  View Original Post
    I would not sell one of my rEvos to anyone who could not show proof of certification on a rEvo unless they assured me they were scheduled to take a class to get certified on the rEvo. I would verify that with the instructor.

    Also, I would not "loan" or sell a cave diving rig to anyone who was not a cave diver as was the case 12/25/13.

    Of course the question is: How would I know what their intentions really are? Once again I would verify with a cave instructor that the person had indeed scheduled a cave diving class with them.

    All of it would be in writing, at a minimum through e-mail.


    Of course because teaching CCR is your livley hood

    I dived a rEvo Hybird with no prior training

    I trained on an inspo classic and also extensivly dived a KISS, Hammer Head and JJ with no training.

    I just couldn't see the point. They were just CCR with 02 o2 cells and dill just like any other CCR. Figuring out how to dive them was a lot less complicated than trying to lern how to program the radio on my new car

    ATB

    Mark

  8. #28
    Prism 'prentice Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike is a splendid one to behold Mike's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris  View Original Post
    Mike
    I am about to put one of my rEvo's up for sale.
    Let me know if you want it, I do not require poof of certification, I know you can dive
    Thanks Chris - but I've already bought one rebreather from Perth this month, don't want to make a habit out of it...

    I'm sticking with the prism until after a trip on the Empress in November, I'll have another think then.

    Mike

  9. #29
    Dive addict taliena is an unknown quantity at this point taliena's Avatar
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    Re: Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    I just couldn't see the point. They were just CCR with 02 o2 cells and dill just like any other CCR. Figuring out how to dive them was a lot less complicated than trying to lern how to program the radio on my new car

    ATB

    Mark
    Don't say that, that is not allowed :D :D

  10. #30
    RBW Member MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent's Avatar
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    rEvo micro FT

    Second hand certification police

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    I just couldn't see the point. They were just CCR with 02 o2 cells and dill just like any other CCR. Figuring out how to dive them was a lot less complicated than trying to lern how to program the radio on my new car
    So I guess you're advocating for the PADI car radio tuning speciality course then?

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