+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: Use of ArgOx for decompression

  1. #11
    RBW Member Rolf is an unknown quantity at this point Rolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    4
    Inspriration Classic

    Apocalypse

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    A couple of years ago I got an offer to do deco with argonox. No tables, no data what so ever. I passed.
    If there is a substantial shorter deco I'm al ears. If not the old adagium say's it all: if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

  2. #12
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island BC Canada
    Posts
    3,853
    Hollis Prism 2, Megalodon

    CCR Instructor Trainer

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf  View Original Post
    A couple of years ago I got an offer to do deco with argonox. No tables, no data what so ever. I passed.
    If there is a substantial shorter deco I'm al ears. If not the old adagium say's it all: if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
    Good thing the guys who first introduced oxygen and nitrox decompression didn't know about that "adagium"
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  3. #13
    RBW Member rongoodman is an unknown quantity at this point rongoodman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Albany, NY
    Posts
    86
    Prism 2

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    I understand using the ArgOx mixture to increase the off gassing gradient of the He and N2, but wouldn't you be on gassing Argon at the same time? I don't know anything about its solubility or diffusion speed.

  4. #14

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    Sorry for reviving this very old thread, but I find the topic tremendously interesting.

    Do any of you know if anyone has looked into this since the last activity in this thread? Does anyone here routinely do it? The benefit in reduced deco time could be tremendous I think. Both on air and on a TMX dive, with a massive gradient difference for both nitrogen and helium. A swap at 21m to 50/50 o2/Arg, all the way to the surface would be good.

    One less deco gas to carry. Lower PO2, less chance of oxtox, less pulmonary issues on very long decos etc. Carry an extra O2/arg, and have a redundant gas. Also, no worries on doing wrong switches either.

    All sounds sweet. So why aren't we doing it? Is there any research to indicate we shouldn't? Or is it just because no-one want's to guinea pig it?

    Cheers,
    SK
    Last edited by Sierrakilo; 8th October 2018 at 14:28. Reason: grammar and spelling

  5. #15

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrakilo  View Original Post
    Sorry for reviving this very old thread, but I find the topic tremendously interesting.

    Do any of you know if anyone has looked into this since the last activity in this thread? Does anyone here routinely do it? The benefit in reduced deco time could be tremendous I think. Both on air and on a TMX dive, with a massive gradient difference for both nitrogen and helium. A swap at 21m to 50/50 o2/Arg, all the way to the surface would be good.

    One less deco gas to carry. Lower PO2, less chance of oxtox, less pulmonary issues on very long decos etc. Carry an extra O2/arg, and have a redundant gas. Also, no worries on doing wrong switches either.

    All sounds sweet. So why aren't we doing it? Is there any research to indicate we shouldn't? Or is it just because no-one want's to guinea pig it?

    Cheers,
    SK
    I think argon is highly narcotic to the order of a few times greater than nitrogen

  6. #16
    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    511
    Meg + sidewinder

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    Quote Originally Posted by Sierrakilo  View Original Post

    All sounds sweet. So why aren't we doing it? Is there any research to indicate we shouldn't? Or is it just because no-one want's to guinea pig it?
    Because argon is about 3x more narcotic than N2. You'll be significantly impaired at 21m on 50/50 (O2/Ar).
    http://www.tech-ccr.com/pdf/study-lo...er-Overton.pdf

    It's also about 4x more soluble than N2 (depending on temp) so you will be on-gassing significant amounts of Ar at that 21m switch that you will then have to get rid of later.
    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/g...er-d_1148.html

    So the bottom line is that by the time you are shallow enough to use argon as an inert it's not worth the trouble. And you would have a 3rd inert with a whole additional set of M-values to address in any software/model.

  7. #17

    Re: Use of ArgOx for decompression

    Quote Originally Posted by rjack  View Original Post
    Because argon is about 3x more narcotic than N2. You'll be significantly impaired at 21m on 50/50 (O2/Ar).
    http://www.tech-ccr.com/pdf/study-lo...er-Overton.pdf
    Ok, suppose at 18 or 15 then. Many people are comfortable on diving air to 50, this would likely feel like an equivalent narcosis level? (Perhaps less so, depending on how you expect O2 to affect narcosis, but that's a whole different discussion)

    Quote Originally Posted by rjack  View Original Post
    It's also about 4x more soluble than N2 (depending on temp) so you will be on-gassing significant amounts of Ar at that 21m switch that you will then have to get rid of later.
    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/g...er-d_1148.html
    This is way above my paygrade, but does solubility of the gas account for speed of intake, rather than molecular size?

    Consider that He has a solubility (g gas per kg water @ 20 deg C) of 0.0015 and nitrogen has one of 0.02 Much, much higher. Argon has one of 0.06, much higher still. Which gas goes into tissues fast?


    Quote Originally Posted by rjack  View Original Post
    So the bottom line is that by the time you are shallow enough to use argon as an inert it's not worth the trouble. And you would have a 3rd inert with a whole additional set of M-values to address in any software/model.
    Granted. Sounds sensible.


    Cheers, Soren

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts