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Thread: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

  1. #21
    Fake Diver Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack's Avatar
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Agreed, but otoh, you have a warm moist environment to breed who knows what kind of bacteria?

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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragerdiver  View Original Post
    It comes down to what your comfortable with, If its is unused(Meaning you didn't even pre-breath or positive pressure test the scrubber), and your diving in a couple of weeks no problem. Seal it up, put it back in the tub if your not going to use it for a while.
    Are you suggesting the same would be not viable when in fact it had been prebreathed or Pos test had been done ?

  3. #23
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Pack  View Original Post
    Agreed, but otoh, you have a warm moist environment to breed who knows what kind of bacteria?
    I would be curious to find out what kind actually. Pretty caustic environment for most life forms I would think.
    When I was in the Navy we used chemox SCBAs for firefighting, which were a chemical rebreather utilizing KO2 (potassium superoxide) to generate oxygen.
    I was an instructor at the firefighting school and there was concern that although we sterilized the masks and hoses the counterlungs were reused by hundreds of students without disinfecting. When they cut one open to swab the gook inside they found it to be sterile of any microbiological activity. It seems the KO2 was so caustic that nothing survived in that atmosphere.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

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  4. #24
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    I would be curious to find out what kind actually. Pretty caustic environment for most life forms I would think.
    Exactly!

  5. #25
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    I have no chemistry training beyond High School but I have never heard a single compelling argument for throwing out unused sorb, or even partially used sorb between dives.
    Absolutely correct. I do have a little deeper chemistry knowledge.
    To the OP. I have posted this many times at various threads here on RBW..
    Do a search for storing used sorb in general..
    You should find plenty in regards to your question, what relates to used sorb can't be worse to unused..
    If you really are 100% sure you did not expose the lime to anything else than atmospheric CO2 (e.g. no prebreath and no pos test) then you even could consider putting the sorb back into the canister.. You do not want to disturb the lime of partially used scrubber because then you risk channeling but you would not with completely unsused sorb..
    Exposure to ambient CO2 happens for all the lime from the moment it was opened the first time..

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    The chemicals are inactive when not exposed to CO2 and even the minuscule amounts found in our atmosphere (Al Gore notwithstanding) has minimal affect of the sorb.
    The first part here is also completely correct. the second part (ion regards to ambient CO2 is a misperception. Ambient CO2 will eventually use up your sorb even when in a small fraction, but ambient CO2 is relatively endless. Why it is still not too critical to an undisturbed scrubber is, that is is unlikely that ambient CO2 would migrate a through the scrubber without a forced flow.. this is independent from the small fraction though..

  6. #26
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius  View Original Post
    Absolutely correct. I do have a little deeper chemistry knowledge.
    To the OP. I have posted this many times at various threads here on RBW..
    Do a search for storing used sorb in general..
    You should find plenty in regards to your question, what relates to used sorb can't be worse to unused..
    If you really are 100% sure you did not expose the lime to anything else than atmospheric CO2 (e.g. no prebreath and no pos test) then you even could consider putting the sorb back into the canister.. You do not want to disturb the lime of partially used scrubber because then you risk channeling but you would not with completely unsused sorb..
    Exposure to ambient CO2 happens for all the lime from the moment it was opened the first time..



    The first part here is also completely correct. the second part (ion regards to ambient CO2 is a misperception. Ambient CO2 will eventually use up your sorb even when in a small fraction, but ambient CO2 is relatively endless. Why it is still not too critical to an undisturbed scrubber is, that is is unlikely that ambient CO2 would migrate a through the scrubber without a forced flow.. this is independent from the small fraction though..
    Not only is ambient CO2 negligible, but flow rate matters also. There's no flow through your rebreather. It'll last MONTHS. Open it up, dry it, reseal it and reuse it on your next dive.
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  7. #27
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius  View Original Post
    Why it is still not too critical to an undisturbed scrubber is, that is is unlikely that ambient CO2 would migrate a through the scrubber without a forced flow.. this is independent from the small fraction though..
    Yes and I guess I really oversimplified because I have observed when using indicating sorb that a thin outer layer in an unsealed radial scrubber will experience a colour change when allowed to be exposed to atmospheric CO2.

    In your opinion what should the practical limits on stored sorb be? Is it more to do with the reliability of the container as far as keeping CO2 out and moisture in?
    Cheers,

    Dave....

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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by aainslie  View Original Post
    but flow rate matters also. There's no flow through your rebreather
    That is exactly what I tried to say with "that is is unlikely that ambient CO2 would migrate a through the scrubber without a forced flow"

  9. #29
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    In your opinion what should the practical limits on stored sorb be? Is it more to do with the reliability of the container as far as keeping CO2 out and moisture in?
    Well personally I do not impose any limit generally. It is a judgement call based on many factors (e.g. transport cycles-additional settling and increasing WOB, package - I have a special lid for the canister so I am confident there, planned dive profile and temperature, etc..)
    Generally I recomend: With what the diver in question feels comfortable with..
    Independently from how good or bad the sorb (very hard to go bad, but not impossible with wrong treatment) in reality is, it is much more important how one feels with the sorb during the dive..
    Certaintly no sorb fill is worth wasting ones dive for a subconscience nagging in the background: "Is the sorb ok?, Is the sorb ok?, Is the sorb ok?..."
    So if you do not feel 100% confident that you can still trust your sorb.. throw it out..

    As for keeping moisture in: This is in my opinion much more a question of storage ambient conditions maintained rather than real selaing quality..
    As long as you keep moderate temps lets say 10-30 °C there should not be an issue with moisture content in the sorb even when there was imperfect sealing..
    That is more from a physics angle then chemistry though..

  10. #30
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    Re: Canceled dive, what to do with untouch sorb?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius  View Original Post
    Well personally I do not impose any limit generally. It is a judgement call based on many factors (e.g. transport cycles-additional settling and increasing WOB, package - I have a special lid for the canister so I am confident there, planned dive profile and temperature, etc..)
    Generally I recomend: With what the diver in question feels comfortable with..
    Independently from how good or bad the sorb (very hard to go bad, but not impossible with wrong treatment) in reality is, it is much more important how one feels with the sorb during the dive..
    Certaintly no sorb fill is worth wasting ones dive for a subconscience nagging in the background: "Is the sorb ok?, Is the sorb ok?, Is the sorb ok?..."
    So if you do not feel 100% confident that you can still trust your sorb.. throw it out..

    As for keeping moisture in: This is in my opinion much more a question of storage ambient conditions maintained rather than real selaing quality..
    As long as you keep moderate temps lets say 10-30 °C there should not be an issue with moisture content in the sorb even when there was imperfect sealing..
    That is more from a physics angle then chemistry though..
    Yeah, I've seen sorb in sealed containers create a lot of condensation on the outside of hte container when the temps go up. In a sealed container, no biggie... in an open one, it could begin to be an issue. Fortunately, exhaled gas contains a LOT of moisture, so the H2O required for the exothermic reaction to get fired up is right there in your breath even when sorb goes too dry.
    Andrew Ainslie

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