+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Results 71 to 75 of 75

Thread: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

  1. #71
    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Weymouth, England
    Posts
    3,023
    NVMCCR Inspiration

    Classic KISS, Sport KISS

    Re: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBrown  View Original Post
    It is interesting though, that yet again, we have an mCCR diver who thinks that just the mere fact of having a machine that will kill them every dive unless they press the 02 add button, somehow makes them safer. "personal responsibility' I think you said.

    Well, I have 'personal responsibility to check my cells, dil flush and monitor my handsets. Its only the machine pushing the O2 button for me and in fact, I have additional cell checking going on in the background. If it stops working by some freak of nature, its irrelevant. Im still checking and flushing and validating just like you.

    If it were true that mccr is somehow safer due to personal responsibility, pilots would take maps and compasses to navigate and turn off the autopilot and we'd still all dive with tables instead of computers.
    That's not what I meant, I even included ECCR divers as people capable of accepting personal responsibility.

    I am not talking ECCR vs MCCR as the general attitude now is that no difference exists, apparently because people believe in statistics.... thats another thread in itself

    I am talking about a generational or evolutionary difference.

    What I was trying to say is that divers buying more recently think CCR is a consumer product and are dismayed by the reliability, support, training randomness and stability of manufacturers. Perhaps this is why we have upset Sentinel owners stuck with units reliant on one person in one factory and a second hand market the ar*ehole has fallen out of?


    The divers who've been around longer in the niche accept and understand this, they might not like it but it does not surprise them. Many old-hands have lost deposits, waited years for units, had to ship units 12000miles for servicing and wait 2yrs to get a still broken rig back



    By way of reply to your reply- Chris, you might accept the responsibility to cell check, do flushes and monitor your gauges but I promise you that MANY CCR divers (outside class) do Not, or if they do not with the required diligence, frankly on both ECCR and MCCR. However they've accepted the responsibility either way.

    As I stated previous, I personally would not accept the responsibility of a current ECCR, that has nothing to do with buyers who think the fact a company has a website and takes money means the product is failsafe though

  2. #72
    Mostly cold ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown has a reputation beyond repute ChrisBrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,742
    Evo+, Pos MKVI, Sentinel

    rEvo II & III Minis & Micros

    Re: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

    Thanks Ben. That all makes sense and I don't disagree.

  3. #73
    ZeroEmissions Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Worlwide
    Posts
    1,871
    Sentinel/Boris/Evo/Liberty

    HomeBuild, AP Classic, Path

    Re: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisBrown  View Original Post
    Possibly some truth to all CCR owners having rose tined glasses with their own CCR's.

    Fortunately, I was in the dive business, so when I sold The Deco Stop and had some spare cash, I wanted to buy a high end 'expedition' unit and train to teach them. Sentinel fitted the bill perfectly for my needs, I could have chosen other brands but went with VR. I knew about issues people had with their sentinels and I knew what I was getting into (except the near liquidation / Avon part)

    As for the unit itself - I hear the criticisms and sometimes I find myself nodding and agreeing. I dive my evos / inspos mostly, as they are the easiest and most reliable. However, now and then, when a Sentinel class comes up and I get back in the pool and practice, I read the manual again and I reacquaint myself with why I liked the unit in the first place.

    - The unit trims out fine in a travel frame or stock without a big ass stand.
    - Its big and bulky, but so are twins. Im only small and I can manage it OK
    - It breathes better than ANYTHING else I have tried including the JJ and Meg, which are both great units.
    - The user interface on the electronics is out of date. I hated it at first, but now Im used to it. Took me over 80 hours though:)
    - The CO2 monitor is FABULOUS. I don't care what anyone says, it WORKS and it KICKS ASS! I find it amusing that everyone whined so much that we were in desperate need of a CO2 monitor and when we get one 'oh - its not in the mouthpiece / its not accurate' etc etc.
    - You can fly the unit manually and in fact, it FEELS like an mCCR. The ADV isn't worth a shit so you end up manually controlling on descent and then the small bore piping is a bit bizarre for me so I end up manually controlling ascents too. When you get into the swing of it, you really keep your po2 on the money, because you want to avoid the blue HUD light and funny colors on your handset:) You get into the habit of keeping it all green.

    Overall I love the unit, its incredible. However, I think the optocon let it down and damaged its reputation. The batteries just aren't reliable enough to power the HP sensors (not VR's fault) and the fibre optics needed to be super clean to work properly. If you understood all this and could fix it yourself, no worries, otherwise its just frustration and disappointment.

    Its no surprise to me that those divers that are properly trained on the Sentinel and are of the mindset of meticulous care and attention to their rebreathers, have no problems. Its not necessarily rose tinted glasses. I also accept that its not the unit for everyone. If you want minimalism and reliability that comes without too much preventative maintenance, its not for you.

    The main issue is not the unit, but the future of support. I hope it doesn't end up the Betamax / MiniDisc of CCR's

    Quote 100%.
    Nad

  4. #74
    ZeroEmissions Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad is a glorious beacon of light Nad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Worlwide
    Posts
    1,871
    Sentinel/Boris/Evo/Liberty

    HomeBuild, AP Classic, Path

    Re: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

    By way of reply to your reply- Chris, you might accept the responsibility to cell check, do flushes and monitor your gauges but I promise you that MANY CCR divers (outside class) do Not, or if they do not with the required diligence, frankly on both ECCR and MCCR. However they've accepted the responsibility either way.

    As I stated previous, I personally would not accept the responsibility of a current ECCR, that has nothing to do with buyers who think the fact a company has a website and takes money means the product is failsafe though
    That's right! Quite sad but right.
    Nad

  5. #75
    Fabio Barfab will become famous soon enough Barfab will become famous soon enough Barfab will become famous soon enough Barfab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    205
    Ouroboros

    Sentinel

    Re: VR sentinel rebreather mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    As an aside

    I am a buildings surveyour

    I wouldn't buy a conventional 1970 built house

    I have never lived in a 1970 house but I dont need to because as an experianced surveyor specilising in building defects i am only too awar of the design issues.

    This very knowladge is the reasion I have never owned one.

    Bit like CCR realy

    You dont need to own and dive one to see some of the issues with a unit.

    Sometimes owning and diving one exposes more issues you hadent realised but the ones you managed to asses without owning one will still be there.

    My personal view on the Sentinal is its too big, too bulkey, doesnt trim out well, its a bit of a sod to live with and is unnessarily complex.

    I have never owned one but on this thread some owners seem to be pointing out the issues I had deduced from reserch only.


    I was offerd a dive on one by Chris. I turned it down as I had already writen the unit off as something I had no interest in.


    I am somewhat warey of comments from owners. Some do seem to be a bit "rose tinted glases" about their units.

    I have owned and dived five diferent CCR and I have found faults on all of them. My two favorites are just the best of a bad bunch.


    ATB

    Mark
    Rose tinte glass is proper of who loves a Reb that can only, maybe, manage PO2, without else monitoring!
    Last edited by Barfab; 3rd February 2014 at 12:03.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts