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Thread: Bottle/Jar Identification Help - Pulled from Wreck of the Daryaw in the St. Lawrence

  1. #21
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    Re: Bottle/Jar Identification Help - Pulled from Wreck of the Daryaw in the St. Lawre

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    In order to be considered an artifact or archaeological site, the resources must have cultural heritage value. This means one must value them for the important contribution they make to our understanding of the history of a place, an event or a people. The level of cultural heritage value associated with an archaeological resource may influence whether or not it meets the definition of an archaeological site under the Ontario Heritage Act"

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Del  View Original Post
    any site that shows evidence of human activity in the past or artifacts is considered an archeological site.
    These seem to be very different definitions. The law must be crystal clear when it comes to enforcement, and so far the visibility is limited. I know there are emotions involved and people always scream that you can't take anything from any wreck in Canadian waters, period. But so far I have not seen the written law that supports that. John has quoted the law and is seeking a list of wrecks that meet the definition of an archaeological site. Andy came up with something about evidence of human activity in the past, but did not cite a source for that. So a car that drives off the road into the water is protected? How about a bicycle or lawn mower that someone discarded by throwing it in the river? Or a row boat that developed a leak and sank at your dock with your camera in it. Are you prohibited from retrieving your camera because it is now an artifact?

    The line is not as clear as you seem to think. And clarity is called for in the law. Please cite the actual law and the terms you are using to justify your position. I don't think that is too much to ask.
    Ken

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    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  2. #22
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    Re: Bottle/Jar Identification Help - Pulled from Wreck of the Daryaw in the St. Lawre

    Steve

    Thanks for your earlier reference to SOS organization.

    I have contacted and exchanged a email with the President of Save Ontario Shipwrecks. He has been quite helpful so far and stated.

    1) The Ontario ministry of culture tourism and sport is legislated to keep such a list, however it is not accessible to the public electronically.
    2) That being said, all materials located under water or even touching the foreshore region ‎which have been there longer than 50 years are covered by the current act. This includes shipwrecks, individual artifacts, submerged settlement sites, etc.

    So it seems that a list cannot be accessed by the general public. Not sure why that is the case but it seems to be the current reality.
    It seems that there is some criteria as indicated with the 50 year statement.

    I have also asked him if he can point me toward the legislation documentation which clearly indicates this criteria as the Heritage Act does not use this same specific wording and seems to leave this subject to interpretation.

    John

  3. #23
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    Re: Bottle/Jar Identification Help - Pulled from Wreck of the Daryaw in the St. Lawre

    OK to follow-up on my earlier posts and provide further information I received from the President of SOS. He contact someone in the Provincial Organization and here is the quoted response.

    "Ontario doesn’t have a set date that defines when something becomes an archaeological site. The Act places that determination on something more foggy: its “cultural heritage value or interest”.

    Our land sites have various rules depending on what stage of investigation it is and where it is in the province (relative to the course of settlement through history), but we have nothing for underwater sites. Now, it depends on the shipwreck too: the Edmund Fitzgerald became an archaeological site when it sank. But a barge that was scuttled in 1960 doesn’t have the same level of cultural heritage value or interest to make it archaeologically worthwhile.

    Despite that, determining the cultural heritage value or interest is something we have a professional consultant licensee determine, since that’s something that usually involves a decision about the disposition of the site. If they can convincingly argue that the site is of value, then we go along with their professional judgment."

    So it seems that the information that has been posted indicating that all shipwrecks in Ontario waters are protected is simply not true. But rather they have to have been thru a evaluation and acceptance procedure first to confirm they are of cultural heritage value before they are protected.

    Additionally, I posted earlier that there is a list of the wrecks that have been declared as being of cultural heritage value and thus protected. Unfortunately, access to the list does not appear to be available to the public. I suspect this is the reason that the urban myth has been developed and passed along that all wreck are protected in Ontario waters when in reality this is not true. So it would seem just easier to tell people they are all protected since one cannot easily verify the status it seems.

    This still does not answer the question if the Daryaw is protected or not. I will continue to see if I can get this fact resolved thru the SOS contact.

    John

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    Re: Bottle/Jar Identification Help - Pulled from Wreck of the Daryaw in the St. Lawre

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    So it seems that the information that has been posted indicating that all shipwrecks in Ontario waters are protected is simply not true. But rather they have to have been thru a evaluation and acceptance procedure first to confirm they are of cultural heritage value before they are protected.
    Well, for whatever wrecks don't qualify as heritage sites provincially (and I think the Daryaw does), they still fall under federal legislation, which covers all of Canada's shipwrecks, regardless of date of sinking. If the Receiver of Wrecks wasn't contacted, well, that's a "no no"...

    People really got to get informed before diving abroad, and they don't want to get informed, then they should leave the wrecks alone.

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