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Thread: prism 2

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    RBW Member aindris75 is an unknown quantity at this point aindris75's Avatar
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    prism 2

    hi all,
    just wondering has anybody been diving the new prism 2 and what your thought are on it, im looking at changing units and have been looking at either a jj or prism, cheers
    andy

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    RBW Member L.Babcock is an unknown quantity at this point L.Babcock's Avatar
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    Poseidon MK6,Hollis Prisim 2

    Re: prism 2

    the Prism 2 is a great unit. very simple to operate.I use the prism 2 primary for cave diving, its very durable. I can have my students trimmed out in the unit in no time. I do a lot of traveling and the Prism packs nicely in a carry on. it has probably some of the best work of breathing then most units. its easy to clear water out of the loop if some reason you would loose the DSV out of your mouth.example, i installed a secure mouthpiece on the unit, i apparently let the secure cool off to much while i installed the zip tie, in which i dont like. i didnt find out how loose it was untill i was 3000 ft in Ginnie. i guess the vibration from scootering cause the DSV to seperate from the mouthpiece the next thing i knew im getting water in my mouth. The DSV was now under my chin. i went to bailot and shut off the DSV. i always keep a spare mouthpiece and zip ties on me. in a nut shell i was able to get the loop cleared very easy and continue my dive. it has one of the most efficient scrubbers on the market.most important its manufactured and backed by Hollis.since its manufactured Hollis has a large selection of spare parts in stock, personal I have never had to change out any parts because of wear or breakage. it uses shearwater electronics. I highly recommend the Prism 2

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    RBW Member L.Babcock is an unknown quantity at this point L.Babcock's Avatar
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    Poseidon MK6,Hollis Prisim 2

    Re: Re: prism 2

    Quote Originally Posted by L.Babcock  View Original Post
    the Prism 2 is a great unit. very simple to operate.I use the prism 2 primary for cave diving, its very durable. I can have my students trimmed out in the unit in no time. I do a lot of traveling and the Prism packs nicely in a carry on. it has probably some of the best work of breathing then most units. its easy to clear water out of the loop if some reason you would loose the DSV out of your mouth.example, i installed a secure mouthpiece on the unit, i apparently let the secure cool off to much while i installed the zip tie, in which i dont like. i didnt find out how loose it was untill i was 3000 ft in Ginnie. i guess the vibration from scootering cause the DSV to seperate from the mouthpiece the next thing i knew im getting water in my mouth. The DSV was now under my chin. i went to bailot and shut off the DSV. i always keep a spare mouthpiece and zip ties on me. in a nut shell i was able to get the loop cleared very easy and continue my dive. it has one of the most efficient scrubbers on the market.most important its manufactured and backed by Hollis.since its manufactured Hollis has a large selection of spare parts in stock, personal I have never had to change out any parts because of wear or breakage. it uses shearwater electronics. I highly recommend the Prism 2

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
    another thing I noticed on the Prism is on long dives moisture doesn't effect the cells reponse time. I have herd people complaining about that on their units. I have checked that by doing o2 flushes at 20 ft on deco and again flushing with dil on the surface. it was spot on without any lag besides the norm

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    RBW Member rongoodman is an unknown quantity at this point rongoodman's Avatar
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    Prism 2

    Re: prism 2

    Good to hear. Mine should be here by the end of the month, and I'm in the process of getting dates set up for my MOD 1.

  5. #5
    Banned Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del is a name known to all Andy Del's Avatar
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    Re: prism 2

    The choice for one in the EU, or even close to it, such as Australia is a no brainer: get a JJ.

    Seen a few Prisms on boats, but never under water. Thus, I've never been able to dive one, as they are U/S most of the time. It seems down-under Prisms (both I and II) are allergic to the sea... many units have flooded due to poor O-ring sealing and other, apparently secret, issues that 'don't exist'.

    Now JJs... like fleas on a stray dog. There's even one in my dive castle... Never missed a dive, never had an issue although cells do need to be changed. It's almost like diving my old KISS (which I believe is up for sale somewhere north of Sassannach-land... it's #130)

    Prism, loads of plastic. JJ, built like the proverbial outdoor dunny. No contest there.

    No BOV on a Prism that has been seen around here. The JJ BOV, despite claims, works fine with heavy breathing, deep etc. etc. one just needs to check the second sage is tuned properly. Even the VERY early ones work fine! I know, I dived one on a Meg...

    JJ designed and built by rebreather designers and divers, Prism built by a company that sells OC gear - and now rebreathers. The expertise demonstrated at Oztek by Hollis corporate wear toting representatives was not breathtaking: gobsmacking is more accurate.

    Both have a the same electronics, which are superb.

    All the bells and whistles about flood clearance, see through scrubbers, the worlds greatest DSV, etc etc don't matter a single iota compared to thorough, competent divers who assemble their units properly, check them properly and can put them on, turn them on and dive them properly.

    Getting on to 9 years of CCR diving (while not a long time compared to some) I have made mistakes but not had a rebreather fail by flooding, needed to see in my scrubber, or been unable to work out my PO2 late in a dive at shallow depth or for that matter (using a slate and pencil) at depth based on good dil flushes...

    All the extra 'safety features' on a Prism are no match for a rugged CCR and a competent diver.

    cheers

    Andy

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    jj ccr

    Re: prism 2

    I'd second Andy's comments.

    The prism... well.... it's plastic all over

    The JJ... Haven't missed a dive.

    D

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

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    RBW Member H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver is a jewel in the rough H2Ocaver's Avatar
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    Re: prism 2

    Well speaking as someone that owns and dives a Prism 2, I have had no problems at all that prevented a dive. Now as far as Andy's experience with the Prism (or Lack of) the Oring seal is actually VERY robust. The P2 Holds a seal very well even if some of the latches are not secured. I'd like to hear a definition of "many".
    "Loads of Plastic" seem to be used as a derogatory term. As far as I know, plastic works pretty well in the 21 century. Also, at what point does the amount of plastic become "loads", I assume the JJ does not have "loads" of plastic but just under that threshold.
    No BOV or Best DSV, is one of those things a benefit or detraction?
    The DSV is VERY good. The BOV is the same unit from the Explorer and breathes as good as any OC regulator, actually better than most.
    The Flood TOLERANCE is a true safety feature that some other units do not have. Any unit without split T's is subject to more water in the scrubber (except ones with Hydrophobic membranes) or at least the scrubber basket.
    As far as the Clear basket- how could this be anything but a benefit to the entire dive team? I assume no one has ever let the DSV out of their mouth by accident, now how much water made it to the basket? Well I can find out very easily-can the buddy of a JJ diver?


    "don't matter a single iota compared to thorough, competent divers who assemble their units properly, check them properly and can put them on, turn them on and dive them properly." Is this news? does this make the any unit better or worse?

    "been unable to work out my PO2 late in a dive at shallow depth or for that matter (using a slate and pencil) at depth based on good dil flushes..."
    How well do the cell's stay dry in a JJ? The P2 has them wide open in the canister and I have never had a problem and I tried to get them wet on a couple dives.

    As far as the ruggedness of the P2, has anyone seen one break?
    The Original Prism topaz was designed by Peter and made by hand and is still dived today, I think Pitkin dives his in pretty unforgiving environs, maybe his topaz is better than the P2 version. Hollis sells a lot of gear Rebreathers happen to be one type-Is that a bad thing?

  8. #8
    RBW Member L.Babcock is an unknown quantity at this point L.Babcock's Avatar
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    Smile Re: prism 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Del  View Original Post
    The choice for one in the EU, or even close to it, such as Australia is a no brainer: get a JJ.

    Seen a few Prisms on boats, but never under water. Thus, I've never been able to dive one, as they are U/S most of the time. It seems down-under Prisms (both I and II) are allergic to the sea... many units have flooded due to poor O-ring sealing and other, apparently secret, issues that 'don't exist'.

    Now JJs... like fleas on a stray dog. There's even one in my dive castle... Never missed a dive, never had an issue although cells do need to be changed. It's almost like diving my old KISS (which I believe is up for sale somewhere north of Sassannach-land... it's #130)

    Prism, loads of plastic. JJ, built like the proverbial outdoor dunny. No contest there.

    No BOV on a Prism that has been seen around here. The JJ BOV, despite claims, works fine with heavy breathing, deep etc. etc. one just needs to check the second sage is tuned properly. Even the VERY early ones work fine! I know, I dived one on a Meg...

    JJ designed and built by rebreather designers and divers, Prism built by a company that sells OC gear - and now rebreathers. The expertise demonstrated at Oztek by Hollis corporate wear toting representatives was not breathtaking: gobsmacking is more accurate.

    Both have a the same electronics, which are superb.

    All the bells and whistles about flood clearance, see through scrubbers, the worlds greatest DSV, etc etc don't matter a single iota compared to thorough, competent divers who assemble their units properly, check them properly and can put them on, turn them on and dive them properly.

    Getting on to 9 years of CCR diving (while not a long time compared to some) I have made mistakes but not had a rebreather fail by flooding, needed to see in my scrubber, or been unable to work out my PO2 late in a dive at shallow depth or for that matter (using a slate and pencil) at depth based on good dil flushes...

    All the extra 'safety features' on a Prism are no match for a rugged CCR and a competent diver.

    cheers

    Andy


    Andy,What are you Aussies putting in your water down under interesting,I haven't seen the flood issue on the Prism 2 that your claiming, and I have been around a few of them. You can get the Prism with a BOV if you choose to.As far as some plastic, I don't see it being a downside. Like I said earlier in my post, I use it in caves probably some the harshest environment you can put equipment through. I never had a flood,I never broke a single piece on the unit. The only time it kept me out of the water was a shearwater depth sensor went out. I have dove the unit in the Red sea, Mexico,the Atlantic, the gulf and The Pacific and never had a flood. Im glad you like your JJ and im sure its a solid unit. I never dove one so I cannot comment on the way it dives, just like you haven't dove the Prism 2

    Safe Diving brother
    Larry

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    Re: prism 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Del  View Original Post
    The expertise demonstrated at Oztek by Hollis corporate wear toting representatives was not breathtaking: gobsmacking is more accurate.
    That is unfortunate to hear. Often, when new products are brought to market the sales force who are manning the booth do not have the expertise in niche products that we would hope they have. I can tell you that AUP (Australian Underwater Products) have made a very large commitment to bringing the Prism2 and Explorer rebreathers to Australia, and the expertise will be in evidence going forward. I believe within the next month you will see the launch of the Prism2 BOV worldwide. It is identical to the Explorer in most respects but have some design feature differences, including a black casing. It is actually the Explorer which inherited the Prism2 BOV design from one of AUPs top in-house engineers.

    The Prism2 is celebrating it's one year of sales this month, so it is not surprising that you see more of products which have longer market presence. I would be surprised if that were not the case. However, I believe once people start looking at the carrying costs associated with the P2 compared to other units, they will find another benefit to the design and mass production of the rebreather.

    As far as being "plastic", sometimes "plastic" (Virgin glass filled nylon) and High Pressure Urethane are actually better materials choices when heat retention and condensation control are considered. Glass-filled nylon also tends to snap back to shape if accidentally dropped.

    I recently witnessed a diver drop their sorb canister and it took a nasty spill, bouncing off boat benches. The stainless steel mesh got bent so badly in the process that it was deemed unsafe to dive. The diver was fuming and really pissed at himself and kept repeating that it was an $800 part. A fellow prism2 diver on the boat commented to me that he had just bought a spare canister to pre-pack for boat trips. Cost? $65.00. I am not claiming that one design is superior to another or that the P2 canister is more durable, because it too would probably have broken in such a fall, but I am saying that if an accident like that destroyed my scrubber, I know which one I would rather have to replace.

    One of the biggest benefits of mass production is you are able to choose the best material for the job, not what is easily available or cheaply machined. AUP is a 35 year old company with an unparalleled life-support engineering department and design expertise outside the company when their inside engineers are too busy on other projects. They have lots and lots of expertise with Stainless Steel, machined brass, chrome plating, Aluminum, various plastics and on and on.

    I work with AUP as an outside contractor, so I am anything but unbiased, but I do believe they chose the best materials for the design. We could have chosen Aluminum or stainless steel. Hell, AUP have their own machine shop the size of a football field churning out metal parts 24/7, so it would have been a no-brainer if they were the best materials for the job. While we use Stainless on certain parts such as the DSV/BOV barrel and chrome plated brass on the DSV counterweights and custom rebreather first stages, metals just were not the right materials for this design overall, and since we got to choose for purely engineering reasons...

    As far as your critique on expertise of the company overall, what you see and know are marketing arms selling OC gear. What you don't see are the corporate divisions working on multi-million dollar U.S. Navy concept rebreather contracts such as the AT-UBA (Advanced Tactical-Underwater Breathing Apparatus) which was successfully wrapped up a few years ago. You also may not see the guiding hands of marine engineering experts such as Peter Readey and lately Kevin Gurr who have driven some of the most ground breaking designs in UBAs as well as other contract work in marine life support. There is much to American Underwater Products expertise that most people don't know they don't know.

    We have had the Explorer in the field for several months now bringing a core of instructors up to speed on the design. Most of them are also either P2 divers working on getting their hours to get their Instructor rating, or are instructors already. You can go on the Hollis website to see who is teaching the Prism2 and ask for their opinion. Many of them, including the owner of this board teach and sell several rebreathers. I would encourage anyone thinking about buying a Rebreather to reach out to somebody who represents or dives several lines for an unbiased opinion.
    Last edited by saveourseas; 14th May 2013 at 02:44.
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  10. #10
    RBW Member Gregm is an unknown quantity at this point Gregm's Avatar
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    Re: prism 2

    Andy,

    The day we went out on the boat with the Prism II and didnt get it in the water was because the Diver was Sea Sick.
    There have been a couple of issues With O ring Sizing on the first ship units and the machines that came into Australia actually came with the upgrade kits, they just forgot to ship them with the machines. I did get a stuck solenoid on one of my dives but I have also heard about one of the JJ's in Aus that had a similar problem. There was also a few problems with the Shearwater Computers, but that applied to any of the units using that rev including the JJ, Depth Sensor Failures and Battery Burn issues etc.
    I Promise I will bring the Prism out diving with us in the next couple of weeks. The Trim on it is perfect for me I dont have to compensate with weights to get the right balance and attitude in the water.

    Regards

    Greg

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