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Thread: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

  1. #31
    RBW Member jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Why are some people saying that because the batteries are in the loop they last longer? How do they know and does it really matter?

    The OLED display upgrade I was selling was tested in a ice water bath with contiunous solenoid operation and it lasted 7+ hours. Understanding that this handset is powered with a single inexpensive rechargeable lithium battery ($6 US) and the OLED draws more power than the manufacturers original LED.

    It seems to me that this duration is more then what would be needed on any single dive under these conditions.

    John

  2. #32
    Roland Somodi rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver is a glorious beacon of light rolanddiver's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    We know it from experience and it really matters. It is a fact that batteries don't like to be cold. Low temperature drastically reduce the voltage of the battery also the amount of max current it could provide(therefore overall capacity). Automotive batteries are compared based on Cold Cranking Amperes. There is a reason for that. Simply charge your digital camera and use it inside the room till it goes flat, than do the same outside on a cold winter day winter. If you get 30% of the time of what you had inside the room, you are lucky or probably have a brand new battery. It is simple physics. I saw a brand new Inspration Vison battery going flat in one day just by being immersed in 4C water in the cave.Owner of the reb accused us of messing with his rebreather, while it was only the cold that killed it.
    Very Respectfully

    Roland Somodi

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  3. #33
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    HammerMeg

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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by rolanddiver  View Original Post
    We know it from experience and it really matters. It is a fact that batteries don't like to be cold. Low temperature drastically reduce the voltage of the battery also the amount of max current it could provide(therefore overall capacity). Automotive batteries are compared based on Cold Cranking Amperes. There is a reason for that. Simply charge your digital camera and use it inside the room till it goes flat, than do the same outside on a cold winter day winter. If you get 30% of the time of what you had inside the room, you are lucky or probably have a brand new battery. It is simple physics. I saw a brand new Inspration Vison battery going flat in one day just by being immersed in 4C water in the cave.Owner of the reb accused us of messing with his rebreather, while it was only the cold that killed it.

    Seems your examples show more about the current needed. Would it make sense that having batteries in the loop with shorter leads are more a function and reflection of the power efficiency of the CCR electronics and solenoid than the temperature of the battery.

    If a single rechargeable litium battery in a HH OLED handset in ice water can supply enough current to operate the electronics and solenoid for 7+ hours when located at the end of a cable at least a meter away. Why is it necessary for the battery to be in a warmer enviroment with a short lead in other CCR's. Certainly it is not the fault of the battery that this is needed.

    John

  4. #34
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blomman  View Original Post
    Do you know the root cause of the battery explosion?
    Was it a re-chargeable battery?
    The cause was water leaking by the battery cap o-ring. No problems after giving the compartment a good clean, and changing the o-ring on the cap.

    Yes, it was a rechargeable battery.

  5. #35
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    John,

    Did you test the same battery in a warmer environment? It might have given you twice as much working time. As I stated for me the main consideration was to have the PIC still running and driving the solenoid in case of a handset failure/flood.
    Very Respectfully

    Roland Somodi

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  6. #36
    RBW Member michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    [QUOTE=paulraymaekers;429514]michael, where it the redundancy in power supply? if you separate power supplies in external battery containers, and in the unlikely event one external container would flood, you still have the remaining power supplies
    when you have all your batteries in one compartment, and it floods, you loose everything?
    rEvo uses either 3, either 4 completely separate, independant power supplies, all in a different place, different compartment. you can never loose them all at the same time[/QUOTE


    hi paul
    first , i consider batteries outside the rebreather in a more hostile enviroment than inside , most rebreathers up until the new ce regs had them inside without issue . second my battery pod is sealed in side its own 1 bar chamber , inside a dry electronic pod with only cell faces exposed to the loop which its self even with a full rebreather flood will not its self flood , ,my test divers have now accumilated severall thousand hours of dives many below 100 m and not a single rebreather flood of any kind has occured , i am fairly confident that even with a full flood and enough under pressure to flood the electronic chamber that when i remove my battery pack it will be as dry as a bone .some will critisize me for that confidence ,but its true , why split up and put batteries all over the place creating extra failure points with bat boxes extra wiring etc when all can be contained in an enviroment i am confident will be the last place water will reach , if an aurora floods enough to allow the possibility to compromise the batteries , you are off the loop already a long time . ive been on these forums a long time and flooded battery compartments have not as far as i know been a hugh topic , so here is where i stand , if your batteries are in the loop and the batbox floods , your unit has flooded so generally dive over . if they are out side the unit and your bat box floods you know you have a problem so probably dive over even though your unit is intact , i dont know if you recomend to continue diving with a set of failed batteries but in my opinion having multiple redundant batteries gives multiple failure points. there should be a thread here on how much redundancy is to much ,adding a redundant system its self creates another failure point in the system , having redundancy for you redundancy ??? build something you are confident works and you are halfway to having a good unit .nothing is certain anything can fail . ,i designed the aurora pod with 99 % confidence it wont flood , put a second set somewhere else which is more likely to flood and my confidence in the system is already compromised .
    cheers all
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  7. #37
    RBW Member michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami  View Original Post
    The cause was water leaking by the battery cap o-ring. No problems after giving the compartment a good clean, and changing the o-ring on the cap.

    Yes, it was a rechargeable battery.
    ps
    i would personally never use rechargables in the unit , i have heard of a few exploding bats , all rechargables , putting energy into somthing generally means off gassing and potenial overload , batteries are cheap and last a long time especially with shearwater just put new ones in them .
    mike

  8. #38
    Dark, cold and wet. DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ is a glorious beacon of light DwayneJ's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by michael hearn  View Original Post
    if they are out side the unit and your bat box floods you know you have a problem so probably dive over even though your unit is intact...
    Various units have configurations that provide completely redundant electronics so a primary computer and/or solenoid battery box failure does not mean an end of a dive.

    As a manufacturer, it would be in your best interest to understand how your competitors products work do before you start critiquing their "design" decisions.

  9. #39
    RBW Member michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn is a jewel in the rough michael hearn's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneJ  View Original Post
    Various units have configurations that provide completely redundant electronics so a primary computer and/or solenoid battery box failure does not mean an end of a dive.

    As a manufacturer, it would be in your best interest to understand how your competitors products work do before you start critiquing their "design" decisions.
    dwayne
    i am not critisizing another manufacturer ,i know exactly how a revo works ,i know paul ,please dont take it so personally , i was asked a question and i gave an answer why i designed my unit the way it is. the aurora has redundant electronics ,it has flood recovery ,all life support components are in a specially designed housing to protect them ,, this thread is about battery compartments ,my batteries are protected well enough as to say it is extremly unlikley they will flood as far as i know im allowed to say that , why split them up and create as many failure points as redundancy .why put them out side the unit , others do for there own reasons , i choose not to , maybe in the future you will get to see one of my units and then you will understand how it works, and my reasoning behind it , maybe even you will be impressed .
    cheers
    mike .

  10. #40
    RBW Member Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr's Avatar
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    Re: I woul;d like to hear reasons and opinions for this.

    Quote Originally Posted by DwayneJ  View Original Post
    Various units have configurations that provide completely redundant electronics so a primary computer and/or solenoid battery box failure does not mean an end of a dive.

    As a manufacturer, it would be in your best interest to understand how your competitors products work do before you start critiquing their "design" decisions.
    If you 're in a plane flying and the pilot says one hydraulic system is out wouldn't you want to land immediately?
    Even with 2 more as backups as is usually the case? Why wouldn't you abort your dive? How is it any different?

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