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Thread: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

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    RBW Member SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver's Avatar
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    Hammerhead Hybrid

    4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    After talking to Kevin Juergensen to be sure that the way I had wired my handsets would not compromise the integrity of the handsets he said the Rev D was designed to be wired in many different configurations. Having owned a classic head with Rev C handsets and hearing about some of the troubles that others had I wired in another computer and utilized the forth cell option that the Hammerhead came with. Now I got comfortable diving with a cell not associated with the other cells so I wanted the same configuration with my new Extream Head with the Rev D's. What I didn't want was having a third cable coming out of the head and another display to keep on my wrist.
    My original set up was having the primary run the solenoid and the DIVA using cells 1, 2, & 3. Now the secondary also looked at cells 1, 2, & 3. I used the HUD (DIVA) which followed the primary reading and I kept the backlight on the secondary on which worked for me since most of my dives are in total darkness (caves).
    I rewired my set up so that my primary now looks at cell's 1, 2, & 3. My secondary looks at cell's 4, 2, & 3. Cell 1 of the primary and cell 4 of the secondary are completely independent from each other. I can now flood, cut the cable or destroy one of the handsets and the other one will at lease give me one good cell reading. If in doubt the cell can be checked with a good dill flush. ImageUploadedByTapatalk HD1361312702.342824.jpg
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    Dive Addicts Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton's Avatar
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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    I can understand getting comfortable with a cell not associated with the others. And I think you found a good method for having the cells be isolated.

    Not looking for an argument just want to give MHO. I think having the primary run both the solenoid and the DIVA is a mistake. The Rev D's are power hungry. I think the original setup of having the Solenoid and the DIVA powered by 2 separate handsets is more important redundancy then the 4th cell. It is one of the things I love about HH. If my solenoid fails for whatever reason even if it is battery I still have my HUD and Vice-Versa.

    I never want to be in a cave and have both my Solenoid and my HUD go out. This is entirely possible with how power hungry the REV D is. In a cave if the Solenoid goes out and heaven for bid you didn't notice at least the DIVA would go off and vibrate if you were in real danger.

    Have you tried the Red Backlight in a cave? It is not as power hungry and works well in low light. If you were going to stick with this setup you have why not put a Rev C with OLED as the secondary? If you are having the primary run both Solenoid and DIVA what benefit do you get of the REV D over REV C on your secondary?

    My two favorite aspects about HH electronics:
    1) A Vibrating Alarm. - I think this is one of the best safety innovations out there.
    2) Completely separate controllers and handsets. True redundancy in PO2 displays.

    I think the most likely scenario for the DIVA actually going off and saving the divers life would be if the solenoid stopped firing and the diver was not checking his PO2. The most likely scenario for the Solenoid to quit firing is loss of battery. And with your set up the DIVA would also not go off.

    I know there are plenty of rebreathers out there that the Solenoid and HUD are powered by the same source. That's fine but I just don't understand taking a rebreather that is setup with them separate and changing it. Especially without a more reliable battery, or a dual battery system.

    Anyways best of luck. I hope it suits you well in your cave diving. Have fun and be safe.

  3. #3
    Dive Addicts Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton will become famous soon enough Michael Thornton's Avatar
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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    My other suggestion if you are going to stick to this set up is to set the HH up as a Hybrid. It appears you have already done this. This is a good option in case your primary battery does fail at least it is not entirely up to you to maintain the PO2 in darkness with no HUD.

    The problem with a Hybrid and not having your HUD on a separate controller is you either have to use PPO2 mode on the DIVA or it will be giving you a warning. With the DIVA on a separate controller you can set your primary to a set point of 1.0 and your secondary to a setpoint of 1.2 And then as you manually maintain your PO2 your HUD blinks green when you are at 1.2

    Do you dive the DIVA in PPO2 (Smithers) or in User Setpoint mode?

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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thornton  View Original Post
    Not looking for an argument just want to give MHO. I think having the primary run both the solenoid and the DIVA is a mistake. The Rev D's are power hungry. I think the original setup of having the Solenoid and the DIVA powered by 2 separate handsets is more important redundancy then the 4th cell. It is one of the things I love about HH. If my solenoid fails for whatever reason even if it is battery I still have my HUD and Vice-Versa.

    I never want to be in a cave and have both my Solenoid and my HUD go out. This is entirely possible with how power hungry the REV D is. In a cave if the Solenoid goes out and heaven for bid you didn't notice at least the DIVA would go off and vibrate if you were in real danger.

    Have you tried the Red Backlight in a cave? It is not as power hungry and works well in low light. If you were going to stick with this setup you have why not put a Rev C with OLED as the secondary? If you are having the primary run both Solenoid and DIVA what benefit do you get of the REV D over REV C on your secondary?
    Right on, Michael. Its the biggest reason I haven't upgraded to Rev D on my Optima. Their usual configuration for an upgrade is to have a Rev D primary running both the solenoid and DIVA, while you keep a Rev C secondary. I don't want that. And I don't think its worth the cost of upgrading a secondary to Rev D just to get the DIVA split from the solenoid control. The other features would be wasted on a secondary that I clip off and never look at.

    Having a Rev C secondary run the DIVA means you lose all the nice features of the new DIVA that might make Rev D worthwhile. And having a Rev D primary running the DIVA while a secondary Rev C controls the solenoid would be ok, but that configuration isn't possible since the Rev C as secondary can't control the solenoid. So I'm sticking with Rev C on both for now.
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  5. #5
    Randy Thornton Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict's Avatar
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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    Right on, Michael. Its the biggest reason I haven't upgraded to Rev D on my Optima. Their usual configuration for an upgrade is to have a Rev D primary running both the solenoid and DIVA, while you keep a Rev C secondary. I don't want that. And I don't think its worth the cost of upgrading a secondary to Rev D just to get the DIVA split from the solenoid control. The other features would be wasted on a secondary that I clip off and never look at.

    Having a Rev C secondary run the DIVA means you lose all the nice features of the new DIVA that might make Rev D worthwhile. And having a Rev D primary running the DIVA while a secondary Rev C controls the solenoid would be ok, but that configuration isn't possible since the Rev C as secondary can't control the solenoid. So I'm sticking with Rev C on both for now.
    Ken,

    If you want to keep one Rev C, it makes more sense to keep the primary as a Rev C so that you can take advantage of the new Rev D DIVA on the secondary which really is an awesome piece of equipment.

    Regards,
    Randy

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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    Thought about that one too, Randy. It just seemed like a lot to spend to get just the benefits of the new DIVA. There's a lot more to Rev D than that and it would all be wasted.

    Lamar didn't see the problem with having one handset control both, and even suggested that the rebreather could be configured with only one handset without a problem. That's just not for me.
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  7. #7
    Randy Thornton Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict's Avatar
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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    Thought about that one too, Randy. It just seemed like a lot to spend to get just the benefits of the new DIVA. There's a lot more to Rev D than that and it would all be wasted.

    Lamar didn't see the problem with having one handset control both, and even suggested that the rebreather could be configured with only one handset without a problem. That's just not for me.
    Ken, I agree about the Rev D having a lot to offer, but having one handset control everything including solenoid and DIVA removes a key safety feature IMHO.

    Safe diving,
    Randy

  8. #8
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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    Couple things...

    Fred... I really like what you have done with the 4th cell... I have had lots of conversations with Kevin around this and actually had planned at one point to do exactly what you have mentioned here with a 1,2,3 and a 1,2,4 wiring approach.... I ended up wiring in my 4th cell to my shearwater simply cause that was easier than rewiring the rest of the head. I may end up going to Fred's wiring at some point anyway...

    As far as the whole solinoid DIVA thing... Putting both on the same wrist unit. I think your out of your #)(*$# mind but that's one of the great things about personal choice, you can do what you want...

    This goes back to 101 doubles diving..... You breath off of one regulator and you have a pressure gauge that you look at off of the other regulator.

    Similarly, I want to read on my wrist from one wrist unit and look at the DIVA from the other. Otherwise we might as well go back to having a single battery source for everything etc... In Fred's set up that means that I am easily monitoring all 4 cells.

    I love the Rev D's. I would love them more if they were a little smaller but regardless the lighting options are great.... I dive my primary on my wrist with the back light on at 50% all of the time. The secondary running the DIVA is clipped off to my chest and goes dark after 30 seconds.

    Fred... Thanks for sharing...

    Mark

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    Re: 4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    We are in complete agreement, Randy, even though it sounds like you're trying to argue. Kevin needs to come up with a single handset upgrade that doesn't include running DIVA and solenoid from the same one. And the only way I can see to do it is to have a Rev C secondary be able to run the solenoid. From what I know, that just isn't possible with the current Rev C handsets.
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  10. #10
    RBW Member SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver's Avatar
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    4th Cell with HH Rev. D

    I am listening to your suggestions and may move the DIVA to the secondary. It came from the factory wired with DIVA and solenoid wired together since most divers were using there Rev. C for the secondary. I chose to get a Rev D for my secondary since my old Rev C did not have the computer part activated.
    Yes I agree the "D" loves batteries and that is the reason Kevin went to the UltraFire Lithium Batteries. I do not use the backlight on the primary except to change my set point, the rest of the time I use the HUD to tell me what the primary is doing and since the secondary powers nothing but itself I keep the backlight on all the time. Turn my wrist read display information and move on with out missing a stroke. Having the DIVA and solenoid powered separately make since also.


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