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Thread: Out of Date sofnolime 797

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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    All opinions are well respected here, BUT i think we should point out and make it clear that this is dangerous and if one decides to used " expired" sofnolime, then he/she should understand the risks....

    I am worried for not very experienced divers / new ccr guys getting all sorts of ideas..... Deep down, the meg axial gives 3:30 hours and many have done 5 hours on it.... Eventually someone will come up and say " i have done 6, or 7...."

    And eventually we hear something not pleasant.... I am sure you get my point. For me, this is one of the scariest phase of ccr equipment i use, because there is no indication. If you put a well used sofno next to a new one, you hardly can tell the difference. (. Is it the colouring one by the way?)

    So guys, please be carefull

  2. #12
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris  View Original Post
    Dave
    I think Steve was more asking about using out of date 797 as oppose to how long people are keeping it in the Scrubber between dives...

    ie "Expiry Date" or "Best Before"

    Steve
    Ran a fill of 797 through the rEvo the other day it was 18 months out of date, strangely the RMS gave me exactly the same runtimes as in-date 797

    Cheers
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  3. #13
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve  View Original Post
    The drums remain unopened and stored indoors. That shouldn't be an issue. I suppose I'm asking a chemistry question; does this stuff decay over time or does it remain with it's initial properties ad infinitum? How do we know?

    Come on Chemistry boffins
    Well that question has already been answered above..
    It is all about the storage.. nuffin about chemistry there.

    As for the chemistry part: No CO2 no decay..
    However minimum H2O content required..
    So if the sealing is proper there is nothing to worry about..
    High temp and low temp is related to that..
    There is no perfect sealed container.. the more extreme the enviromental conditions during storage the more likely a "not so well working" seal..
    And anything below freezing point can have an impact as the necessray humidiyt (HO2 "water") in the lime can "freeze out"..
    I personally if stored in the conditions you describe would not be too worried about, but that is what I would do.. certaintly no advise to anyone !

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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw  View Original Post
    (. Is it the colouring one by the way?)
    Cleraly: NO it isn't the clour indicators work far not well enough to tell you anything different that any coloured lime is definately been used..
    It does not tell you: No collour good to go..
    The stuff tends to go back to white even in used lime shortly after a dive..

  5. #15
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius  View Original Post
    Well that question has already been answered above..
    It is all about the storage.. nuffin about chemistry there.

    As for the chemistry part: No CO2 no decay..
    However minimum H2O content required..
    So if the sealing is proper there is nothing to worry about..
    High temp and low temp is related to that..
    There is no perfect sealed container.. the more extreme the enviromental conditions during storage the more likely a "not so well working" seal..
    And anything below freezing point can have an impact as the necessray humidiyt (HO2 "water") in the lime can "freeze out"..
    I personally if stored in the conditions you describe would not be too worried about, but that is what I would do.. certaintly no advise to anyone !
    No chance of freezing here. Thanks for the reply.
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve  View Original Post
    No chance of freezing here. Thanks for the reply.
    I know a chemistry type person who is pretty stingy with money, he opens his sorb boxes when he gets them, makes sure all the caps are tight on the actual containers and stores then in well insulated room. He's happy to use them well out of date on the basis the moisture content doesn't drop this way. Must admit I dived some of his one day. I just took a more conservative approach to its life, cut it by about a 1/3.

    Matt

  7. #17
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrogenius  View Original Post
    Well that question has already been answered above..
    It is all about the storage.. nuffin about chemistry there.

    As for the chemistry part: No CO2 no decay..
    However minimum H2O content required..
    So if the sealing is proper there is nothing to worry about..
    High temp and low temp is related to that..
    There is no perfect sealed container.. the more extreme the enviromental conditions during storage the more likely a "not so well working" seal..
    And anything below freezing point can have an impact as the necessray humidiyt (HO2 "water") in the lime can "freeze out"..
    I personally if stored in the conditions you describe would not be too worried about, but that is what I would do.. certaintly no advise to anyone !
    Please explain what is "freeze out"?

    Jukka

  8. #18
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by jukkao  View Original Post
    Please explain what is "freeze out"?

    Jukka
    Well I am not entirely where you are aiming with your question.
    What I mean is this:
    The necessary moisture content (initial H2O is needed as a catalysator for the chemical reaction to start when CO2 "hits" the lime) is within the granules. When kept below freezing point it is possible (not necessarily happening and certaintly time is having an influence here as well) that this moisture is freezing.. Then it would "leave" it's structure in the granules..
    Of course when it gets warm it thaughs again but it is "out of the granules" simply not the same as the "regular" moisture content of the lime before.. Otherwise you could just "moisten" the lime to have the necessary effect, but it does not work that way unfortunately..
    Cut short: in useable lime the moisture is "within" the lime which is necessary, when freezing it is not anymore and does not "go back"


    Hope this answers your question and that it got more transparent what I meant.. even if it is a much more "pictureous" description of what I believe is happening in my understanding of reality, which is as well limited..
    I am not an expert here.. Maybe somebody can elaborate a bit better on this or let me know if I might be mistaken..

  9. #19
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    One of the by products of breathing as we all know is moisture. If the slime doesn't have moisture in it to start with it will in pretty short order so the moisture required to kick off the reaction will be present in the loop if not in the container. This is one reason why we pre-breathe the loop.

    I opened a tub of sofnolime dated 2007 a week ago and I have used it on a one hour dive so far using a O2 CCR. It was perfectly fine. I know this because despite advice to the contrary, I am actually alive. I have been using out of date sorb very frequently over the past 5 or more years with no issues (obviously). I also have used brand new sorb. I can't honestly tell you the difference between them if in fact there is one.

    As has already been pointed out, storage is critical though; one thing that definitely kills sorb is heat and direct sunlight. Also I make sure I open the tub myself if the seal is broke then I am wary and unlikely to use it if I can't satisfy myself what it has been up to.

    Once agin, as it's up to the individual how they use sorb so I am only relaying my own experience, not giving advice.

  10. #20
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    Re: Out of Date sofnolime 797

    Quote Originally Posted by osiris  View Original Post
    If the slime doesn't have moisture in it to start with it will in pretty short order so the moisture required to kick off the reaction will be present in the loop if not in the container

    Sorry to disagree, but that is simply wrong, but a quite common misconception.. AFAIK.. Induced moisture due breathing will not start the reaction..
    The moisture needs to be present first in order to start the reaction as far as I understand it !

    If it wasn't wrong we would naver have to waoory about the limes correct moisture content and could use completely dried out lime, because there is always humidity in our breath..

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