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Thread: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

  1. #21

    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    How do you know the CO2 sensor works?...

    ... One would think with CO2 being such a big issue with diving a CCR that once a CCR had a CO2 sensor there would be all kinds of accolades posted by divers as opposed to marketing claims.

    John
    Hasn't the APOC had one for a few years now?

  2. #22
    CEO - TSS John Falcone will become famous soon enough John Falcone will become famous soon enough John Falcone will become famous soon enough John Falcone's Avatar
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    How do you know the CO2 sensor works?
    I do not really know what to say to this comment, but how do you know if it doesn't work?
    The design of a rebreather is essential to having or being able to make sensors work. Simple adding a CO2 sensor would not work on most units out there today because they were not designed with them in mind. The sentinal does, and explorer might use the same 3 things to make this work on the sentinal.
    1. cell location in the head keeps the cell dry
    2. the temp sensor
    3. the computer that makes sense of it all

    I also differ on your opinion that "when there is something good out there very little is said about how good it is." Forums are at least 90% filled with negative internet divers complaining about products. Very little time is spent on posting positive items that work because the divers that have those item are out there using them.
    Last edited by John Falcone; 22nd November 2012 at 19:06.

  3. #23
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by John Falcone  View Original Post
    I do not really know what to say to this comment, but how do you know if it doesn't work?
    The design of a rebreather is essential to having or being able to make sensors work. Simple adding a CO2 sensor would not work on most units out there today because they were not designed with them in mind. The sentinal does, and explorer might use the same 3 things to make this work on the sentinal.
    1. cell location in the head keeps the cell dry
    2. the temp sensor
    3. the computer that makes sense of it all

    I also differ on your opinion that "when there is something good out there very little is said about how good it is." Forums are at least 90% filled with negative internet divers complaining about products. Very little time is spent on posting positive items that work because the divers that have those item are out there using them.
    You said "Yes, the CO2 monitor works". I was wondering if you had direct experience.

    I did not make a claim one way or the other but rather asked you the direct question as the OP was looking for the answer not me. I already explain my opinion on why or why not information has/has not been posted about its real world performance.

    John

  4. #24
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    I did not make a claim one way or the other but rather asked you the direct question as the OP was looking for the answer not me. I already explain my opinion on why or why not information has/has not been posted about its real world performance.

    John
    The Co2 monitor is intersting to say the least. Current controls to prevent Co2 events are all procedural, ie packing procedures to stop channelling, storage procedures to stop it degrading, and time limits to prevent breakthrough. PO2 monitors are really the lowest form of defense (ie PPE equivalent in the heirarchy of control basis) as they requrie the negative to happen to be effective. So unless our higher level defences are not working it wont even trigger. Since we have got pretty good at managing Co2 that means it shouldn't trigger all that often. The one case I have heard of it triggering was a student on pre-breathe with a poorly packed scrubber. Whether we would of noticed as a result of the pre- breath was unkown (he terminated due to alarm). The risk is user complacency, ie they stop the procedural controls as they have what they perceive as a hard engineering control (alarm) which really is actually a very low level control in practice (PPE), ie it tells you post event that CO2 has happened (but hopefully before it seriously impairs you).

    So on a recreational breather looking at pretty fishes we want a moderately trainined and possible not very regular diver bailing out due to an alarm with possible levels of impariment, since they are very unlikely to be able to consistently manage the procedural level control we grown acustomed to due to taining levels and regualr exposure / experience

    I also hope the system/ component relaibility is better than early opticon units. While most likely it will fail pre dive and you will not dive or get another unit from the shop renting it, if its anything like the early opticons the rec market and shops will get badly burnt, and that will damage the market as bad as anything else

    Matt
    Last edited by MHD; 22nd November 2012 at 23:20.

  5. #25
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Bowen  View Original Post
    Ben, IMO your absolutely incorrect.

    I myself would dive this unit if it was available in a dive resort destination. I do not think you are required to have the unit packed by a "shop Monkey", if you own one and have been fully trained on the unit.

    Thus the "packing by a shop monkey" argument in complete BS.

    Yes, the unit is designed 100% for the recreational market, thus if someone considers themselves above that category, fly in with your own rebreather, scrubber, diluent, and oxygen.

    We are not diving the Britannic, we are looking at pretty fish.
    According the information in the video and from Hollis self pack is not available.

    IMVHO the "recreational" market does not exist, what person is going to choose this over a single nitrox tank? The only likely users are travelling CCR divers who want to maintain some kind of bubblefree diving- if so they are unlikley to submit to someone else (or a prepack) prepped scrubber and pointless over complicated SCR (Have VRTech ever made anything simple enough for actualy use underwater? )

    What does this give that OC doesn't? Its more complex, more dangerous, more likely to fail (afterall its designed by Kevin! ) and less capable than a twinset of Nitrox, like the Apoc before it, its a million dollar solution to a 2cent problem... as you say- if you can't be bothered to bring CCR with you use OC and live with it.

    The VERY last thing the industry needs to do is encourage people onto a loop who can't cope with it.

    You say you would dive it at a resort- so it is attractive to a travelling CCR diver.... wow- there are lots of those.... NOT!

    Just IMVHO this is dangerous and stupid developement. Why don't they fix the Sentinel and Prism2 before polluting the market with this dross?

  6. #26
    RBW Member priestlay is an unknown quantity at this point priestlay's Avatar
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Fat rich Americans?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    Wonderfully complex and clever but why, what is the market for this?

    Can't think of any existing CCR diver being at all interested (espeacially if you get ripped off with another course just to pack the scrubber- no way would you ever dive with a scrubber packed by a shop monkey!)

    So it must be for recreational single tank brigade? I emailed the video to a few club members- all thought it unimaginably pointless.

    Clearly Hollis must have spent a fortune on market research, makes you wonder who they asked?!

  7. #27
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Why would a ccr diver not want to support the new ideas and technology produced by a manufacture? The ideas and concepts behide this unit seen at dema is a relief to me. Compairing it to other new and old manufactures coming out with even more and more new units that just continue to grow in price and are the same thing over and over.

    Really enough with the r&d pricing and come out with something different like this.

    If Hollis thinks there is a market out there for them I say let them run with it, and lets see where it takes them.
    priestlay
    Are you saying Americans are "fat rich" with a lot of money? or just overweight Americans with money?

  8. #28
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by John Falcone  View Original Post
    priestlay
    Are you saying Americans are "fat rich" with a lot of money? or just overweight Americans with money?
    I'm saying that is the probably the market, fat, rich, americans.

  9. #29

    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by John Falcone  View Original Post
    Why would a ccr diver not want to support the new ideas and technology produced by a manufacture?
    Because "new ideas and technology" are not important. "Good" ideas and tech are. Just becuase an idea is new does not mean it is good. This unit has some new ideas, not sure if any of them are good.


    If Hollis thinks there is a market out there for them I say let them run with
    Of course, by all means they are entiltled to try. I would just rather dive a Dolphin; cheaper, less failure points, self pack scrubber, more flexible, and perefctly usable in the exact same profiles.

  10. #30
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    Re: Kevin Gurr speaks on the new Hollis Explorer CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by qazwsx  View Original Post
    I would just rather dive a Dolphin; cheaper, less failure points, self pack scrubber, more flexible, and perefctly usable in the exact same profiles.
    Did I see Brand new Dolphins on display in some of Chett's photos at DEMA????

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