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Thread: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

  1. #21
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer4545  View Original Post
    Thank you for posting your report and it has certainly provoked me to do some research into it and there doesn't seem to be any clearly defined set of circumstances or triggers which cause it meaning it could happen to anyone at any time and then may never ever reoccur.

    I'm pleased to hear you recovered fully and are looking forward to diving again soon.

    Regards,

    Lance
    Lance,

    You are correct! It can happen to ANYBODY!!! And just because it happened once does not mean it will ever happen again........but it could!

    There will be separate write up on this to hopefully educate all divers on this phenomena.

  2. #22
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by jaboothtx  View Original Post
    I’ve had friends recommend that I NOT post this incident report because of the number of people who will flame me for one reason or another.
    thanks for posting and a good write up.

    personally,
    id rather be surrounded by flamers than by the kind of person who wouldnt post a potentially life saving lesson for fear of being flamed......


    I received an email once from a notorious flamer who had a few years earlier flamed me in a post i put up about one of my screw ups. He was writing to tell me that he believed my post had just saved his life. (as he recalled how i survived and did same thing) Theres always a flamer
    Last edited by Drmike; 19th September 2012 at 01:30.

  3. #23
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    [QUOTE=jaboothtx;414086]Iíve had friends recommend that I NOT post this incident report because of the number of people who will flame me for one reason or another. However, I have a lesson to share that I hope will help someone else, and I refuse to let the bad behavior of a few people be to the detriment of the community.

    Jean-Ann!

    First off, congratulations for keeping your cool! Not being able to breathe and feeling you are drowning is easily panic inducing.

    I know that from first-hand experience with IPE, as well! It happened to me 17. June 2012 on the Spiegel Grove.

    Since the incident, I have been in contact with Dr. Moon from Duke University. He has been studying this phenomena and is currently conducting another study in this matter. I know they are looking for suitable study subjects/objects. As long as your cardiac work-up comes back negative, you might want to consider participating in it.

    His contact information:

    Richard Moon MD
    Professor of Anesthesiology
    Professor of Medicine
    Medical Director Center for Hyperbaric Medicine and Environmental Physiology
    Chief, Division of General, Vascular, Transplant Anesthesia
    Duke University Medical Center
    Durham, NC 27710
    (919) 684-8762


    His Research Assistant is:

    Ms. Stefanie Martina
    (919) 668-0001


    They have funding to reimburse for travel expenses. And, BTW they are very nice to talk to!

    I had planned to write an article on this matter. However, in light of this becoming a more common occurrence than previously thought, I think I will post my preliminary findings and summary of current knowledge both here and on TDS. Peter Sotis from Add Helium.com, has also asked me to provide a write-up on his web-site. It is to educate the diver who is experiencing IPE and help buddies/boat crew how to deal with somebody with IPE.

    For those who don't know me and wonder what my credentials are:

    I am a Medical Doctor and Diplomate of the Board of Anesthesiologists. For any further information or questions, PM me.

    Since the incidence, my first check out dive was at 120 ft. I have been to 255 since. After 18 dives, I have had no further experience of IPE. I have 755 dives total and 253 CCR dives. I never had anything like this happen before. I had a complete negative cardiac work-up (Stress Test and Echo). I am very fit and pretty lean (12.6%). I am 47 years old.

    My message to you all: THIS CAN HAPPEN TO ANYBODY AT ANYTIME!

    All current studies notwithstanding, there does not seem to be one inciting factor causing this!

    I will work on a summary of the studies done so far and post them soon for everybody's FYI.

    Sorry I am so long winded on your post, Jean-Ann. My hat off to you for dealing with the situation so well and having the "balls" to post it when discouraged to do so.

  4. #24
    RBW Member osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris is a splendid one to behold osiris's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by jaboothtx  View Original Post
    They were testing it. Had a pipette and a fancy portable testing unit.
    Thanks - interesting discussion. cheers

  5. #25
    RBW Member Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun is a name known to all Down4fun's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by osiris  View Original Post
    Thanks - interesting discussion. cheers
    They were doing pulmonary function testing pre and post dive, specific gravity's on a.m. voids, TTE scans post dive and several of us even wore halter monitors (a portable cardiac monitoring device) during the dives.

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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Jean Anne i said it on the other board but let me say it to you here also. thank you for posting your experience. I applaud and respect your decision to do so.

    I think it is important to the diving community that people come forward and share their personal experience, whether it is IPE, DCS including skin bends and lymphatic bends, or other diving anomalies. So we can become a better educated community. I believe there is strength in coming forward and as more people share, the less stigma or flammers there will be. That is my hope any way.

    Sounds like you kept a very cool head in the water and I am glad you are doing fine.
    Last edited by Down4fun; 19th September 2012 at 22:04.

  7. #27
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    I have a question are you or have you taken any meds as of late?

    The commercial dive industry has been seeing a lot of Immersion Edema the last few years. Medications have been the big common factor.

  8. #28
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by Loanwolf  View Original Post
    I have a question are you or have you taken any meds as of late?

    The commercial dive industry has been seeing a lot of Immersion Edema the last few years. Medications have been the big common factor.
    Like what kind of meds?

    The current thought is that IPE is caused by increased pulmonary vascular pressures causing an exudate. I don't know of any meds that cause that of hand.

  9. #29
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamdive  View Original Post
    Like what kind of meds?

    The current thought is that IPE is caused by increased pulmonary vascular pressures causing an exudate. I don't know of any meds that cause that of hand.
    Statin's and blood pressure meds are the most common.

  10. #30
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    Re: Immersion Pulmonary Edema (IPE) at 291'

    Hello,
    and thanks for the precise account and write up. Personally I would have never thought that there would be any reason to flame somebody for such a good job.

    My personal 0.02$ worth of guesswork around the incident:
    - exposure protection: brrrrr, never would I have dared to do something like that in a wetsuit, chapeau!

    - borrowed hood: I'm personally a real sissy when it comes to things around my throat. Could the tightness of the hood around the throat have contributed to an increased WOB? Especially while inhaling? Although the "negative pressure edema" is a bit of a ghost entity, increased inspirational WOB with relative negative intrapulmonary pressure might have been a contributing factor.

    - acute management under water: have you considered b/o to OC at all? I know that seems a big nono to solve a problem by b/o, but in this case it might have had some merits. By going OC you would have decreased your inspirational WOB because almost every reg I ever had in my mouth delivered gas with more or less pressure support. Although that might not be as beneficial as having a true continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) system, it might at least have made breathing as such feel easier. In my experience lowering the WOB in all respiratory distress that gives people the feeling of "not getting enough air" is crucial and makes them feel better immediately. I'm actually quite surprised that you weren't put on CPAP at the hospital.

    So, again thanks for sharing your experience and I hope you aren't offended by my smartarseing. And btw thanks to dreamdive for the information and the hard work on the literature review (safes me from doing it myself).

    Cheers
    Hansjoerg

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