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Thread: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

  1. #171
    RBW Member Dougyfresh is on a distinguished road Dougyfresh is on a distinguished road Dougyfresh's Avatar
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Can a mod split the GF stuff out both are great threads and might be easier to look up on their own.

    Oh and congrats to all involved in the dive.

    Doug

  2. #172
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave & Sandy  View Original Post
    Sorry guys and gals, 203 m by Sandy Varin

    Cheers
    i"d be killing myself ....

    but stilll a great well dont to all for the dive, the co ordination, the team spirit.

    well done, and may you manage another one deeper very soon.

    Spyros

  3. #173
    RebreatherWorld Sponsor rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh is just really nice rossh's Avatar
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by Down4fun  View Original Post
    Bubble scores are based on the number of bubbles seen per cardiac cycle. I don't believe size is detected in the DAN study.

    This really questions the value of bubble counting data. It would seem the volume of gas has a more significant impact, than just the number of bubbles.


    Please consider this:

    Volume of a sphere (bubble):


    If the bubble diameter doubles, the volume increase by a factor of approx 8::1.

    To double the volume, the bubble size need only increase by about 12%.

    Therefore if one is to make any sense of the volume of gas to be recorded by bubble soundings, measuring the bubble radii is essential.

    Conversely, if bubbles were sized 12% larger, the bubble count would drop to half.....

    If one is to take an accurate measure of the off gassing rates through bubble counting, it would be essential to know the radii, and therefore the volume implied.

    Regards
    Ross Hemingway
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  4. #174
    RBW Member Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P's Avatar
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by rossh  View Original Post
    This really questions the value of bubble counting data. It would seem the volume of gas has a more significant impact, than just the number of bubbles.


    Please consider this:

    Volume of a sphere (bubble):


    If the bubble diameter doubles, the volume increase by a factor of approx 8::1.

    To double the volume, the bubble size need only increase by about 12%.

    Therefore if one is to make any sense of the volume of gas to be recorded by bubble soundings, measuring the bubble radii is essential.

    Conversely, if bubbles were sized 12% larger, the bubble count would drop to half.....

    If one is to take an accurate measure of the off gassing rates through bubble counting, it would be essential to know the radii, and therefore the volume implied.

    Regards
    Hi Ross,

    Exactely what I am talking about for long time now, but noone wants to listen. Everyone is conserned just for number of bubbles, without thinking about what you nicely explained, the size/radii and volume of the bubble.

    Back to track:
    Congratulations to the team that did this big dive, it is something some of us can only wish partecipating...

    Igor P
    Last edited by Igor P; 11th June 2012 at 13:55.

  5. #175
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by rossh  View Original Post
    This really questions the value of bubble counting data. It would seem the volume of gas has a more significant impact, than just the number of bubbles.


    Please consider this:

    Volume of a sphere (bubble):


    If the bubble diameter doubles, the volume increase by a factor of approx 8::1.

    To double the volume, the bubble size need only increase by about 12%.

    Therefore if one is to make any sense of the volume of gas to be recorded by bubble soundings, measuring the bubble radii is essential.

    Conversely, if bubbles were sized 12% larger, the bubble count would drop to half.....

    If one is to take an accurate measure of the off gassing rates through bubble counting, it would be essential to know the radii, and therefore the volume implied.

    Regards
    Thank you Ross! So you are suggesting that perhaps bubble size is more indicative to DCI development than number. That makes sense to me, too. A right to left shunt may be discovered using a saline contrast echo. Here a small amount of air is agitated in saline and then injected. I had that test done on myself prior to getting into tech diving. I don't remember seeing individual bubbles like they did for the bubble study. Instead, my right side was "whited-out" and my left stayed "black". Indicating that I don't have a PFO or other shunt. Small bubbles are eliminated in the lungs and thus should not pose any danger. Perhaps larger bubbles are not sufficiently eliminated in the lungs and thus could result in DCI symptoms.

    Anybody have any more information on this?

  6. #176
    RBW Member Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P's Avatar
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamdive  View Original Post
    Thank you Ross! So you are suggesting that perhaps bubble size is more indicative to DCI development than number. That makes sense to me, too. A right to left shunt may be discovered using a saline contrast echo. Here a small amount of air is agitated in saline and then injected. I had that test done on myself prior to getting into tech diving. I don't remember seeing individual bubbles like they did for the bubble study. Instead, my right side was "whited-out" and my left stayed "black". Indicating that I don't have a PFO or other shunt. Small bubbles are eliminated in the lungs and thus should not pose any danger. Perhaps larger bubbles are not sufficiently eliminated in the lungs and thus could result in DCI symptoms.

    Anybody have any more information on this?
    If I can comment,
    as already written before, if bubbles are small enough to remain stable, the number is not that important because they do not merge together and do not grow in bigger bubbles, but travel their way to lungs and out of the body. If bubbles are bigger they become unstable with their growth as their skin is becoming week and for that reason they can grow even bigger and merge together crating even bigger bubbles, that can't pas the road to lungs and out of the body.

    Tried to explain with as simple words as possible.

    Igor P
    Last edited by Igor P; 11th June 2012 at 14:44.

  7. #177
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by jcmankat  View Original Post
    exactly Randy, how else could one play "exploding lion fish" at 405 feet :)

    good spending time with you and your sons...

    John

    Man if that was legal that sounds like something I would be interested in.

  8. #178
    RBW Member jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat is a glorious beacon of light jcmankat's Avatar
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    Thx Igor .. I understand what you and Ross are saying.. Are there studies published regarding bubble size and DCS correlation that anyone is aware of??

  9. #179
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    Re: Add Helium Dive Team completes dive to 652 feet/200 meters

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