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Thread: rMS light?

  1. #1
    RBW Member Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S's Avatar
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    rEvo III Mini hCCR

    rMS light?

    I've been reading the rMS FAQ and I'm confused about the rMS lite.

    It says that the light version only has a sensor in the inhale scrubber, and so can only predict scrubber cycling times. When you're diving the reaction zone would be moving through the exhale scrubber first (right?).

    So how does the system predict how long it will take for the reaction zone to reach the end of the exhale scrubber with only information from the inhale scrubber? Seems to me it can only give information about when the inhale scrubber will be exhausted?

    Or am I misinterpreting something?

    5. Why can the rMS light only give prediction for cycling and not for full scrubber use?

    The most critical prediction of remaining scrubber time (RST) is always at the end, when the scrubber is close to being completely saturated. At that moment it is critical to have information on the behavior of the complete scrubber.

    As the light system can only read information from the inhale scrubber, it does not have all the information, so the algorithm must estimate the best possible values of the exhale scrubber. Until the time comes that the user should cycle, (exchanging one scrubber and rotating the positions), this is not a problem, as the scrubber has not yet arrived into the critical ‘zone’ where possible breakthrough could occur. It is,however,not safe to continue until full scrubber refresh should be done, because that moment is more difficult to predict due to the missing information.
    Using the light system, the user should always cycle before the RCT (remaining cycle time) has reached zero. In practice however, this time is usually much longer then the recommended cycling times without the information from the rMS.

  2. #2
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    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S  View Original Post
    I've been reading the rMS FAQ and I'm confused about the rMS lite.

    It says that the light version only has a sensor in the inhale scrubber, and so can only predict scrubber cycling times. When you're diving the reaction zone would be moving through the exhale scrubber first (right?).

    So how does the system predict how long it will take for the reaction zone to reach the end of the exhale scrubber with only information from the inhale scrubber? Seems to me it can only give information about when the inhale scrubber will be exhausted?

    Or am I misinterpreting something?
    no, it is correct,

    temp sensing probes are always in both canisters, but in light only the probe in the inhale lung is measured (because there is on read-out electronics in the exhale lung)

    this means that as long as everything is happening in the first canister, you don't have an exact 'remaining' time, but you have an indication of 'at least so many minutes', as the system does not know where it is in the first scrubber, but it does know that there is not yet any activity in the second scrubber
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  3. #3
    Forever Learning kennethw is an unknown quantity at this point kennethw's Avatar
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    Dräger Dolphin (mCCR)

    Re: rMS light?

    I guess 2 other questions come to mind (not about how it works, but what to buy) ...

    Will there be a package where you have full srubber monitoring, but not eCCR (let's call it "Full Manual rMS" for now)?

    If one has rMS light, what is the upgrade path to full rMS or Full Manual rMS (if or when it exists)?

  4. #4
    RBW Member Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S's Avatar
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    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    this means that as long as everything is happening in the first canister, you don't have an exact 'remaining' time, but you have an indication of 'at least so many minutes', as the system does not know where it is in the first scrubber, but it does know that there is not yet any activity in the second scrubber
    Ok, I think I'm misunderstanding the original FAQ then. Maybe you can say if this is correct?
    • You can't measure the exhale scrubber, so you can only make an educated guess what's happening in it.
    • The main piece of information you can know about the exhale scrubber is that it hasn't broken through because the reaction zone hasn't reached the inhale scrubber.
    • So when the reaction zone is in the first scrubber all it can say is, you got X scrubber time left, where X is estimate of scrubber 1 time left + worst case scrubber 2 time.
    • When the reaction zone reaches the second scrubber, you've got full measurement, so information as good as the full rMS?
    This last point is the important one for me. Do you get accurate (as you can be with this type of thing) information when the complete scrubber is getting near it's end of life?

    Thanks for helping me understand.
    Last edited by Paul S; 3rd February 2012 at 14:40.

  5. #5
    RBW Member Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S is on a distinguished road Paul S's Avatar
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    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by kennethw  View Original Post
    Will there be a package where you have full srubber monitoring, but not eCCR (let's call it "Full Manual rMS" for now)?
    I'm sure the Daddy will answer you soon, but it's my understanding that the exhale lung temperature read-out circuitry is combined with the solenoid circuits.

    I guess you might be able to have the circuit from the inhale lung in both lungs, but I doubt the current system is built for that. Regardless without the battery module you haven't got a hub to connect everything into.

    Basically you'd need everything except the solenoid, so might as well have the full version.

  6. #6
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    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul S  View Original Post
    I'm sure the Daddy will answer you soon, but it's my understanding that the exhale lung temperature read-out circuitry is combined with the solenoid circuits.

    I guess you might be able to have the circuit from the inhale lung in both lungs, but I doubt the current system is built for that. Regardless without the battery module you haven't got a hub to connect everything into.

    Basically you'd need everything except the solenoid, so might as well have the full version.
    in Holland for another diveshow

    rMS full needs all components of the hCCR unit
    so mCCR with rMS full... is the same system as hCCR with rMS

    do know that at this moment rMS full is launched
    rMS light is not yet available

    paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  7. #7
    Forever Learning kennethw is an unknown quantity at this point kennethw's Avatar
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    Dräger Dolphin (mCCR)

    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    do know that at this moment rMS full is launched
    Any idea when the ones ordered mid-November 2011 will be delivered?

    I break into a cold sweat everytime I think of the rMS ... this is worse than dive-porn !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Davydive  View Original Post
    Someone told me once at the pool that I looked sexy with a rEvo rebreather but this is a real quote from Scott after the trip:
    "Diving the rEvo is almost as good as sex!"

    Cheers,
    Davy
    Last edited by kennethw; 3rd February 2012 at 23:24.

  8. #8
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    Megladon

    Re: rMS light?

    Any chance of finding out when we can expect the lite to be available?

  9. #9
    RBW Member Agent 47 is on a distinguished road Agent 47 is on a distinguished road Agent 47's Avatar
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    Megladon

    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 47  View Original Post
    Any chance of finding out when we can expect the lite to be available?
    .....Please?

  10. #10
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    Re: rMS light?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent 47  View Original Post
    .....Please?
    from what we now see: probably... never.

    far over 100 units ordered and supplied: all full rMS

    only had 1 order for light, and that was later changed into full..

    so we concentrate on the software of the full, and new developments

    Paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

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