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Thread: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

  1. #1
    RBW Member tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining's Avatar
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    Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    working on establishing some standard rules for cave diving with a CCR, obviously each configuration brings certain skills and unit manipulations but like the OC golden rules I was hoping to achieve a similar set of guidelines.

    Please feel fee to add.

    1. Always maintain a continuous guideline.
    2. Get recognised training from in Cave instructor who dives the unit you do in caves.
    3. Carry double the required bailout gas required.
    4. Limit your scrubber duration to rule of 1/3rds.
    5. Always begin long duration cave dives with fresh divesorb.
    6. Always validate your calibration and know your PPO2
    7. Use Helium in your diluents deeper than 30m.
    8. Dive with redundant pluggable O2 and Diluent
    9. Gain experience with depth and distance slowly
    10. Never CCR Cave dive alone
    Last edited by tecdivertraining; 17th October 2011 at 00:45.

  2. #2
    Sorta New Member w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley's Avatar
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    JM Hammerhead

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    This is crap!
    Bill Ripley

    Rebreathers are something that we have to go to in order to dive the way we want to dive. They are not something we go to for any other reason.

  3. #3
    RBW Member tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining's Avatar
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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Quote Originally Posted by w ripley  View Original Post
    This is crap!
    thanks for the input! so you dont follow any of these?
    Last edited by tecdivertraining; 17th October 2011 at 01:26.

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    RBW Member keylargojimy has a little shameless behaviour in the past keylargojimy's Avatar
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    HAMMERHEAD

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Why are you asking?
    Last edited by keylargojimy; 17th October 2011 at 01:29.

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    RBW Member tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining's Avatar
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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Quote Originally Posted by keylargojimy  View Original Post
    Amen there bill! Full cave is full cave period!
    could not disagree more! diving in overhead on your CCR has different considerations, OK the environment is still the same but procedures and the CCR change several areas of the dive compared to OC.

    obviously when you took your CCR cave class it was all nonsense

  6. #6
    RBW Member PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG's Avatar
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    Meg

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Fun to come?

    Although I would differ on many points, I am not qualified to pass judgment and will leave most of that to others except for one question. Why particularly no solo CCR cave diving? I am a cave explorer and some of the best of it has been underwater, some of it solo. When I learn to dive my breather competentanly, I expect to use that way.

    Peter

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    SF2 | rEvo

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    What's your logic for rule of thirds with the scrubber? If I have a 6 hr duration your saying 2 hrs in, 2 hrs out and 2hrs for deco/ contingency? I think it's too simple a rule. If your in shallow caves such as Mexico or Peacock I think it's too over the top. It just gets more so with greater scrubber durations.

    Thirds is generally a rule sharing gas with OOA team members. I'm thinking maybe something along the lines of "Enough scrubber duration for penetration, exit and deco + a decent margin for lost/no viz situations. I think it's just too complex to make thirds a rule.
    Last edited by tmccar1; 17th October 2011 at 01:45.

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    RBW Member tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining is a name known to all tecdivertraining's Avatar
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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmccar1  View Original Post
    What's your logic for rule of thirds with the scrubber? If I have a 6 hr duration your saying 2 hrs in, 2 hrs out and 2hrs for deco/ contingency? I think it's too simple a rule. If your in shallow caves such as Mexico or Peacock I think it's too over the top. It just gets more so with greater scrubber durations.

    Thirds is generally a rule sharing gas with OOA team members. I'm thinking maybe something along the lines of "Enough scrubber duration for penetration, exit and deco + a decent margin for lost/no viz situations. I think it's just too complex to make thirds a rule.
    great someone taking the time to reply with worthwhile comments

    sure but what data sheet / testing for scrubber efficiency are you running off for what Unit? would be the Q often CCR dives dont look for this and follow simple guidelines for CE style testing.

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    Set the rules first and then worry about what testing your using.

    You can go into a never ending argument over testing that would just derail the process of establishing a rule.

    Lets just assume for this that there's some perfect testing source out there when figuring it out. Then put the margins in for fallibility later.
    Last edited by tmccar1; 17th October 2011 at 02:10.

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    Re: Setting out some Rules for CCR cave diving.

    While I commend Matt for trying to come up with a consensus about certain rules, most of what was proposed was either related to ALL cave diving or ALL CCR diving and not specifically CCR cave. And some I just don't agree with at all. But I do happen to be one of those who believe that CCR cave is different than OC cave and should be a separate course.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    1. Always maintain a continuous guideline.
    True for all cave diving and not related to CCR.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    2. Get recognised training from in Cave instructor who dives the unit you do in caves.
    While I do believe there are specific CCR cave skills (especially calculation and configuration of bailout gasses), I don't necessarily agree that CCR cave should be unit specific. I think more can be learned from someone who is very experienced with rebreather diving in a cave, even if he/she dives a different rebreather. The concepts of CCR cave cross over specific unit boundaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    3. Carry double the required bailout gas required.
    Aside from the language coming from the "Department of Redundancy Department," double may not be the specific amount. "More than adequate" might be more appropriate. Some folks like team bailout. I don't. But an extra margin of 30% or 50% might be more manageable for some instead of 100%. Remember that being overly task loaded by carrying too much can also be dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    4. Limit your scrubber duration to rule of 1/3rds.
    This one makes no sense to me. As Tom pointed out, the rule of thirds for OC cave is appropriate because the last third is not just for your own contingency, but primarily for your buddy. And no buddy is going to be using your scrubber. So leaving some margin is good, but since you never know exactly what the end of scrubber life is, that's impossible to determine. And with sufficient bailout planned, you are covered for your own contingency if you do get a "premature" breakthrough.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    5. Always begin long duration cave dives with fresh divesorb.
    This is redundant based on number 4.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    6. Always validate your calibration and know your PPO2
    Primary rule of all CCR diving and has nothing specific to do with caves.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    7. Use Helium in your diluents deeper than 30m.
    This also has nothing specific to do with caves and is also not a hard and fast rule for everyone. There is no rule that I know of even in OC trimix training because everyone is different.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    8. Dive with redundant pluggable O2 and Diluent
    There are so few people I know that dive with redundant O2 I can't even begin to comment on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    9. Gain experience with depth and distance slowly
    Again, this goes for all kinds of diving, not just cave and not just CCR. But its always a good rule to repeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by tecdivertraining  View Original Post
    10. Never CCR Cave dive alone
    This is just as controversial a statement as "Never dive alone" or "Never cave dive alone" that you will never get agreement.

    Just my thoughts since you asked.

    Ken

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