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Thread: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

  1. #21
    RBW Member Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas  View Original Post
    If your machine has not broken yet. Good for you, but that its not what i mean by build quality. Maybe its more like comparing a new Dacia Sandero with BMW 320. Both will get you from A to B without breaking down but most people will agree with the statement that the BMW has a better build quality.


    Ad hoc explanation
    The CL is constructed to go under the arms because it gives god trim.
    The correct explanation
    The CL goes under the arms because they are constructed out of a motorcycle inner tubing.
    Please note that I am not saying that it does not give good trim.
    Ad hoc explanation
    The oxygen cells is cut to facilitate better gas exchange.
    The correct explanation
    It was the only way to get them in.

    And i still cant believe that people in this day an age believe that once someone has done a number of dives to 100 m that this somehow proves that the machine is safe.

    jlovold You did not answer if the reason I stated was enough or if this was something you thought that you should have a say in ?
    I would suggest you actually look at the head of the Pelagian to see why base of cells are cut off before you show anymore of your ignorance of its design .

  2. #22
    Banned Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    This started out as a concern that Swedtech had brought in a untested machine into the organisation. Then i was asked why this was a problem. I answered what i thought about this. But instead of arguing against me you start to rant about that I am ignorant or that I have not "seen the light"
    And then instead of answering a straight question you bring up something completly diffferent that has nothing to do with the topic in question at all.

    I have no doubt that you are very happy with your machines and i am happy for you. But again everything I have said here are my opinion and I have had a good look at a number of machines before making my choice.

    As I am a bit of optimist ;

    jlovold You did not answer if the reason I stated was enough or if this was something you thought that you should have a say in ?

    Chris Why in your opinion is the head of the oxygen sensors cut ?

  3. #23
    RBW Member jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas  View Original Post
    This started out as a concern that Swedtech had brought in a untested machine into the organisation. Then i was asked why this was a problem. I answered what i thought about this. But instead of arguing against me you start to rant about that I am ignorant or that I have not "seen the light"
    And then instead of answering a straight question you bring up something completly diffferent that has nothing to do with the topic in question at all.

    I have no doubt that you are very happy with your machines and i am happy for you. But again everything I have said here are my opinion and I have had a good look at a number of machines before making my choice.

    As I am a bit of optimist ;

    jlovold You did not answer if the reason I stated was enough or if this was something you thought that you should have a say in ?

    Chris Why in your opinion is the head of the oxygen sensors cut ?
    I was asking you what kind of interest you had in this thread, because a large amount of Swedish CCR divers and wannabes, for some reason enjoys flinging poo on the Pelagian. Unfortunately, it seems like you are a member of that crowd.

    I can tell you several reasons to why the O2-sensors are cut.

    First of all, the front part i cut to let diluent flow across the cell-face, so that you can clean off moisture with just activating the ADV with a fast inhale. You could leave the cells in uncut, bet that would mean you lose instant cell-validation and cell cleaning. If you take a closer look on the Poseidon Discovery-cells, they are of a similar construction for a reason.

    Secondly, because the Pelagian has the most compact head around, it is necessary to cut a little bit of the molex-connection-side to avoid decreasing the integrity of the head.

    Sure, Andy could probably have asked to get tailor-made sensors, but then we would probably have to pay at least twice the price compared to modify standard ones.

  4. #24
    RBW Member Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas  View Original Post
    This started out as a concern that Swedtech had brought in a untested machine into the organisation. Then i was asked why this was a problem. I answered what i thought about this. But instead of arguing against me you start to rant about that I am ignorant or that I have not "seen the light"
    And then instead of answering a straight question you bring up something completly diffferent that has nothing to do with the topic in question at all.

    I have no doubt that you are very happy with your machines and i am happy for you. But again everything I have said here are my opinion and I have had a good look at a number of machines before making my choice.

    As I am a bit of optimist ;

    jlovold You did not answer if the reason I stated was enough or if this was something you thought that you should have a say in ?

    Chris Why in your opinion is the head of the oxygen sensors cut ?
    I do not think anybody has ranted Atlas, you stated your opinion about the Pelagian and then in your last post you basically said Andy’s explanations were not the real reason example, the counter lungs and cutting the base of the cells. I do not have an opinion as to why they are cut, I can see myself the holes in the head where air from the ADV blows on face of the cells as jlovold explained and this would not be as efficient with base left on. As to the counter lungs .as the saying goes "ingenuity is the mother of invention." The tyre tubes work. When you use the unit they feel very good and have a nice WOB. There are a few points I dislike about the unit and are things that I think could be done better but none of them have anything to do with its safety or efficiency as a rebreather. Your basic thinking seems to be if it has no CE mark it’s dangerous. To me the fact that there are so many units in use (mine is #66) and all owners appear to be happy and still alive suggests that it is in fact a good product and if that is not testing WHAT IS ????

  5. #25
    RBW Member Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Atlas  View Original Post
    This started out as a concern that Swedtech had brought in a untested machine into the organisation. Then i was asked why this was a problem. I answered what i thought about this. But instead of arguing against me you start to rant about that I am ignorant or that I have not "seen the light"
    And then instead of answering a straight question you bring up something completly diffferent that has nothing to do with the topic in question at all.

    I have no doubt that you are very happy with your machines and i am happy for you. But again everything I have said here are my opinion and I have had a good look at a number of machines before making my choice.

    As I am a bit of optimist ;

    jlovold You did not answer if the reason I stated was enough or if this was something you thought that you should have a say in ?

    Chris Why in your opinion is the head of the oxygen sensors cut ?
    I do not think anybody has ranted Atlas, you stated your opinion about the Pelagian and then in your last post you basically said Andy’s explanations were not the real reason example, the counter lungs and cutting the base of the cells. I do not have an opinion as to why they are cut, I can see myself the holes in the head where air from the ADV blows on face of the cells as jlovold explained and this would not be as efficient with base left on. As to the counter lungs .as the saying goes "necessity is the mother of invention." When you use the unit they feel very good and have a nice WOB. KISS use waterbags from MSR. I do not think it matters, the tyre tubes work.There are a few points I dislike about the unit and there are things that I think could be done better but none of them have anything to do with its safety or efficiency as a rebreather. Your basic thinking seems to be if it has no CE mark it’s dangerous. To me the fact that there are so many units in use (mine is #66) and all owners appear to be happy and still alive suggests that it is in fact a good product and if that is not testing WHAT IS ????
    Last edited by Chris Kennedy; 24th April 2011 at 09:26.

  6. #26
    Banned Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas is infamous around these parts Atlas's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    I am not flinging poo .....
    You asked and I answered what my honest opinion was. And i am sorry you did not like the answer.

    But I get upset over that you dont seem to accept that i have been capable of forming my own opinion.

    To me that stuff about why cutting the sensors sound like a afterthought. But again that is my opinon. I cant know that. I mean you buy something that is complicated and sensitive bit of kit and then you make an assembly that forces you to cut the same kit. To me that sounds like a makeshift solution (occams razor) . And again the same things goes for the CL.

    Please note that I am not saying that the above soultions dont work!

    I am just saying that explanations brought forward is in my eyes not likely or at least not the whole truth.
    So why bring forward such a explanation like this; Because it sounds better.
    "We spent a lot of effort and development and this is what we came up with" sounds a lot better than "this was a makeshift solution but we think it works well".

    But has anyone thought about what the manufacturer of the cells think about what the cutting does to the performance of the cell or even "god forbid" tested that this has not a severe impact of the cell ??

    Chris you say that it has good wob in all postions but how do you know that is has o good wob when the shit hits the fan and everything goes haywire??
    Do you want to go to 100 m and test laboured breathing ?

    The machine has not been tested in any way whatsoever and this fact will not be changed even if you write here one million times saying it has been dived X number of times to X meters in X temperature for X minutes by X divers !

    Again my intention was not to fling pooo but just raise the question what will happen with a respected and well thought of training org that brings in an untested machine.

  7. #27
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    How can they train a non-CE rebreather?
    I guess the student buys the rebreather from the manufacturer and the instructor uses OC equipment or other CE marked rebreather?

  8. #28
    RBW Member jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold is a jewel in the rough jlovold's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    You may have formed your opinion, based on your assumptions, thats okay with me.

    It may not have occured to you that Swedtech also have formed an opinion, but based that upon several dives with the Pelagian. And it seems like it upsets you that they have come to a different conclusion than you have.

    You seem to believe that O2-cells are delicate creatures that will go belly up if you look a bit hard on them... Well, you are probably right, but I have not seen any consequenses whatever to the cells I have modified.
    I even left one cell in for 18 months, and it was still going strong when I changed it. I have only had one cell go belly up, and it had been in for over 12 months. As long as you are careful when you cut it, nothing is going to happen.
    But, of course you check the cells before you cut them, as any warranties are broken when you cut them. Actually, I think the manufacturer of the cells are really happy when you modify cells that way...

    Why use motorcycle innertube?

    It is extremely durable and very easy to patch, and if you need a new one, you could make it yourself. And last but not least: It does the job it is meant to do.

    If your breathing is laboured and not improving at 100m, you should bail out. period.

    The machine have been tested by me and several others, and found perfectly good. Machine-testing is okay, but only tells you how the machine works under extreme conditions. And it cost money. But, I guess if it was machine tested, it still would not be good enough, because it is not shiny or high-tech enough.

    It works, and it works very well, even in Norway, when set up properly, although I wish for BMCLs to make preparations even simpler.

  9. #29
    RBW Member Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    Atlas the dictionary says a test is
    1. A procedure for critical evaluation; a means of determining the presence, quality, or truth of something; an examination, or experiment
    This is what anybody does when they take an option to make and use any rebreather .A machine is not going to tell me how it is going to react at 100mtr if as you say it all turns to sh**.There are just to many variables .
    You have formed an opinion and nobody is saying you cannot,just like anybody on this forum can disagree with it,thats why my friend its a forum. I think some of the guys who have commented on this thread speak from a position of experience where as you are new to rebreathers from your statistics . They in some cases have dived these units for years and according to the dictionary my friend That is testing.
    Last edited by Chris Kennedy; 24th April 2011 at 11:43.

  10. #30
    RBW Member peter is an unknown quantity at this point peter's Avatar
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    Re: New CCR training agency for Pelagian DCCR

    I must say i find it strange that Swedtech Diving..
    (Which have a very good reputation in Sweden and who has signed an agreement with the Swedish authorities to comply with CE requirements for diving training. )

    Begins to offer training on a rebreather that is not CE approved or not is known to work to get the CE approval in future..

    As most of us know It is illegal to import, sell and train on the non CE approved Rebreather in EU.

    BR
    Peter
    Last edited by peter; 24th April 2011 at 13:29. Reason: Spelling

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