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Thread: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

  1. #21
    RBW Member Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Thanks for all the great information and your input Tobin.....I always enjoy reading your replies.

    What I am really looking for is a cell to replace the ones in my aging Nicad battery packs and a recommendation for a charger. I use Lipo batteries all the time in my R/C Aircraft and Helicopters and am more than aware of what the end result is with a Lipo fire. I am also very aware of the hazards involved when it comes to charging them.

    I'm not trying to set any records or anything but if I am going to buy some new cells, I might as well put the money toward a newer technology with improved output and cell life. I have opened up the Sierra battery assembly and it is full of single cells that are soldered together......I actually think I could do a better job than whoever assembled these. So why not!!!

    Regards,

    Lance
    Last edited by Lancer4545; 26th March 2011 at 12:35.

  2. #22
    hell is in the details Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by cool_hardware52  View Original Post
    ...

    LiFE? Largely a waste of time IMO, the gain in Capacity over NiMh is hardly worth the effort.



    Tobin
    LiFe is about 50% more capacity than the NiMh and less prone to self discharge.
    I think that many customer would like to change their dead ( or tired )NiMh pack for a similary priced pack of LiFe but are not ready to pay the price of the Li ion you propose actually.
    No one could imagine to sell ( or buy )a NiMh pack for an electric bike so what whe diver are worrying about is having to choose between too expensive or obsolète technology.
    The one's who bought a Sierra where aware and pleased with the estimated range ( if not why did they done ? )but not of the incredibly bad reliability of this big NiMh pack.
    So 50% more capacity for a reliable and well priced spare is a very correct deal.
    Hope that the divextra's ( or rabit tool ? )guys are aware of that and will soon give us correct spare, if not they will certainly loose a part of the market.
    I will never buy a NiMh pack again but have not so much money actualy to buy your obviously good battery pack

    Just my two cents

    Marc

  3. #23
    Tobin George cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer4545  View Original Post
    Thanks for all the great information and your input Tobin.....I always enjoy reading your replies.

    What I am really looking for is a cell to replace the ones in my aging Nicad battery packs and a recommendation for a charger. I use Lipo batteries all the time in my R/C Aircraft and Helicopters and am more than aware of what the end result is with a Lipo fire. I am also very aware of the hazards involved when it comes to charging them.
    We don't use LIPO's, and further many of the LIPO fires are directly the result of "hobbyist" use in RC applications.

    (I shudder every time some body starts a conversation with "I know all about battteries, I race XX RC cars/boats/planes.)

    Most here would agree that leaning to dive on the internet is a bad idea.

    Apparently learning to specify, assemble, charge and use ~1 kilowatthour batteries on the internet is OK.

    Tobin

  4. #24
    Tobin George cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc T  View Original Post
    LiFe is about 50% more capacity than the NiMh and less prone to self discharge.
    I think that many customer would like to change their dead ( or tired )NiMh pack for a similary priced pack of LiFe but are not ready to pay the price of the Li ion you propose actually.
    No one could imagine to sell ( or buy )a NiMh pack for an electric bike so what whe diver are worrying about is having to choose between too expensive or obsolète technology.
    The one's who bought a Sierra where aware and pleased with the estimated range ( if not why did they done ? )but not of the incredibly bad reliability of this big NiMh pack.
    So 50% more capacity for a reliable and well priced spare is a very correct deal.
    Hope that the divextra's ( or rabit tool ? )guys are aware of that and will soon give us correct spare, if not they will certainly loose a part of the market.
    I will never buy a NiMh pack again but have not so much money actualy to buy your obviously good battery pack

    Just my two cents

    Marc
    LiFe still can't fly, so no advantage there, and a well designed Li-Co pack and charger is reasonably safe.

    Larger capacity packs are inherently more reliable for any number of reasons.

    Tobin

  5. #25
    RBW Member Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by cool_hardware52  View Original Post
    We don't use LIPO's, and further many of the LIPO fires are directly the result of "hobbyist" use in RC applications.

    (I shudder every time some body starts a conversation with "I know all about battteries, I race XX RC cars/boats/planes.)

    Most here would agree that leaning to dive on the internet is a bad idea.

    Apparently learning to specify, assemble, charge and use ~1 kilowatthour batteries on the internet is OK.

    Tobin
    Tobin.......Please settle down!!!

    I never even implied you use Lipo batteries nor did I imply that I was even considering them. What I did say was that I am aware of the potential hazards associated with them and I have seen first hand what can happen should something go wrong. Lithium batteries are hazardous.......Are they not!!!

    Instead of telling everyone how terribly wrong they are by wanting to renew their own batteries, why not try to help those of us who don't have the experience and expertise??

    Regards,

    Lance

  6. #26
    Tobin George cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer4545  View Original Post
    Tobin.......Please settle down!!!

    I never even implied you use Lipo batteries nor did I imply that I was even considering them. What I did say was that I am aware of the potential hazards associated with them and I have seen first hand what can happen should something go wrong. Lithium batteries are hazardous.......Are they not!!!
    All batteries are hazardous. SLA's have exploded, NiCads and NiMh have started fires etc. Any large concentration of potential energy is potentially dangerous.

    Part of what makes Lithium based chemistries dangerous is the extremely high specific energy and energy density, meaning a fairly small, light weight Lithium pack can store 3-5 times more energy than a comparative sized pack of SLA/NiCad/NImh


    Most of what contributes to the perception that Lithium batteries are unacceptably dangerous is very poor implementation by hobbyists. Add to that the fact that most cells readily available to hobbyists are essentially the ones that failed to "make the grade" for commercial applications. These are the "floor sweepings" left after "Giganto Corp" got their's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer4545  View Original Post
    Instead of telling everyone how terribly wrong they are by wanting to renew their own batteries, why not try to help those of us who don't have the experience and expertise??
    I'll repeat myself again. In my opinion, based on years of dealing with batteries, and specifically with Li-Ion batteries, large capacity Lithium battery packs are a very poor choice for a DIY project. One need only look to the numerous dramatic failures that the DIY RC community continues to experience with *MUCH* smaller simpler packs.

    Are there some divers who can successfully build their own packs? No doubt. For those that lack the skills is a diving forum the right place to learn how? Not IMO.

    What's next? DIY tanks?

    Tobin

  7. #27
    RBW Member Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545 is a splendid one to behold Lancer4545's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Thanks for your input Tobin. You have made your point and obviously you're not interested in making any other useful contribution.

    Regards,

    Lance

  8. #28
    Tobin George cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer4545  View Original Post
    Thanks for your input Tobin. You have made your point and obviously you're not interested in making any other useful contribution.

    Regards,

    Lance
    When I see somebody about to engage in foolish behavior the most useful thing I can contribute is advice not to proceed.

    Tobin

  9. #29
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    The easiest thing to do is get a road scooter pack that is already made. like the one that was posted up and earlier and adapt that to the bulkhead. You just have to look for one that will fit and is not too heavy. If you have a long body or a Cuda the road scooter packs are easy to fit and get the scooter trimmed out. Then you do not have any issues if you are not sure about assembling things yourself from scratch. except for crimping on the plug.

    24V 20AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack

    you can order your X-Scooter with just the battery bulkhead just for this reason.

    Electric road scooters are not that popular in North America but in Asia and Europe they are very popular. Finding the battery packs and getting them off the web is getting easier every day. especially as scooter packs wear out and the demand for new ones increases more and more companies start selling them.

  10. #30
    Tobin George cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52 is a splendid one to behold cool_hardware52's Avatar
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    Re: Changing to Lithuim Scooter Batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Loanwolf  View Original Post
    The easiest thing to do is get a road scooter pack that is already made. like the one that was posted up and earlier and adapt that to the bulkhead. You just have to look for one that will fit and is not too heavy. If you have a long body or a Cuda the road scooter packs are easy to fit and get the scooter trimmed out. Then you do not have any issues if you are not sure about assembling things yourself from scratch. except for crimping on the plug.

    24V 20AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack

    you can order your X-Scooter with just the battery bulkhead just for this reason.

    Electric road scooters are not that popular in North America but in Asia and Europe they are very popular. Finding the battery packs and getting them off the web is getting easier every day. especially as scooter packs wear out and the demand for new ones increases more and more companies start selling them.
    I'll note that the pack in the link you provided is way too heavy for a standard Sierra, and is only 1/2 the voltage needed for a Cuda.

    Two of these is way too heavy for a 550 or 650 Cuda.

    The next smaller 24 volt pack offered

    24V 20AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack

    is light enough for a Sierra, but is recommended for 350 watt applications.

    Now you have a battery you can't fly with, and it's only offers 25% more capacity than the factory NiMh...........

    Tobin

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