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Thread: Eurotech 2010

  1. #31
    Human Fuktup Engineering dave-diving is on a distinguished road dave-diving is on a distinguished road dave-diving's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    It was an excellent weekend and I must also thank Suunto staff, Ryan, Craig and Alistair for my weekend away. Great time!

    For me the real take home bit has to be Arne Sieber as well. There were only 15-20 of us in the presentation and I can guarantee we saw things that are really going to become talking points. What a pity that ccr manufacturers were not in this one as they could easily band together and underwrite the project to make it happen.

    A few words of caution though as not all of the information came out in the presentation but I had a secret ally to discuss the finer points with.....John Lamb of Viamed.

    Although the cell make-up has been known and worked with for some time (2006 to date) it does still have someway to go and John reckons about €1,000,000 funding to design the stable electronics suitable to support the cells would be a start. The patents are German based with Eu funded research.


    The cells themselves are no bigger that the rubber encapsulate on the end of a pencil and are ceramic for oxygen and another ceramic derivative for the CO2. They both do fit neatly within the mouthpiece and the immediate electronics were housed in a box about half the depth of a matchbox on the exterior of the Poseidon BOV Arne used as his test mule.

    The cells operate at between 650 and 700 degrees C and do require a fairly good voltage supply for continued use. I suggested to John Lamb that with the advent of LED lights the spare power we carry could be diverted to these and we go back to charging our battery packs for a days diving instead of the 'I wonder if my torch needs a charge each month'. This high temperature requirement is both good and bad....Good as it rids water in contact instantly due to the cell heat and bad because the bonding of the anode and cathode wires either side of the cell is needing some further work to make it 'diver-proof'

    Although the cells will last some time in operation there is a caveat....They need to be electronically set back at base to ensure the cell readouts are stable. Again the suggestion here would be back to supplier who could send a replacement back to the diver whilst the cells are batch calibrated by the manufacturer. John Lamb feels that irrespective of use/exposure this would be in the region of 12 months for the oxygen cell and 2 months for the CO2 cell. An idea is that the cells can be rotated amongst users so you will end up with different cells each time.

    Over the next few years the items Arne showed will be a distinct reality as I saw John Lamb come alive with enthusiasm and he mentioned to me that this is how he felt thirty years ago when he was pushing frontiers of biomedical electronics.

    If any of you are lottery millionaires and looking for a worthwhile project to fund....contact John and make Arne Sieber's research on cells and linked head up display a distinct and refreshing leap in a positive direction.

    So, for me, Dr Simon Mitchell's presentation was hugely entertaining and reminded me of listening to my old boss Dr Maurice Cross but the real gem of knowledge was Arne Sieber, just a pity so few of us really did catch sight of the FUTURE for CCR gas monitoring and HUD!

    Well done Arne for such an enlightening presentation.
    Dave

  2. #32
    RBW Member josepherely is an unknown quantity at this point josepherely's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Great event, much enjoyed, particularly the clogs on the Dutch guys. Unfortunately I couldn't get into Simon Mitchell's CO2 Presentation as the 'ealf & safiti police would not let me in, would love to see a summary of what he had to say.

    Cheers
    joe

  3. #33
    RBW Member Charley Farley is an unknown quantity at this point Charley Farley's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    I would also like to thank all of the organizers, back room staff and exhibitors of Eurotek 2010. I was with out exception the best dive show I have attended.

    Simon Mitchell & Martin Parkers talks were the highlight of the talks I went to. Leigh Bishop's frank and honest presentation of the Ill fated Brittanic trip was outstanding. Thanks Leigh and RIP Carl Spencer.

    So nice to meet up with fellow divers, some of who are old friends and and now many more new ones. Congratulations to Martin Farr & Mark Powell for their awards.

    I hope the Dutch Guys enjoy the use of the inflatable sheep ;)

    Roz, any chance I can order some tickets for Eurotek 2012

    Thanks To Gary at South West Diving for organizing the table at the Gala Dinner, what a laugh. Cheers Mate.

  4. #34
    RBW Member Arne_Sieber is on a distinguished road Arne_Sieber is on a distinguished road Arne_Sieber's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Dear Dave,
    thanks for your nice post.
    You bring it to the point, the technology is nice, has some potential, but it will require much more effort now to bring it from a prototype to a system that can be used regularly in a rebreather.
    We have especially developed a new electronics, which works quite well, and includes already a lot of gimmicks. In my opinion the real issues will be integration and packaging of the sensors in a way, so that they can withstand "the typical abuse of sensors in a rebreather" ... :) ... meaning they get flushed with water, there may be salt everywhere,... a great challenge, but thats what we like :)

    Thanks for coming to my presentation and thanks again also to Leigh who invited me,

    Best regards, Arne

  5. #35
    RBW Member sonicthediver is an unknown quantity at this point sonicthediver's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne_Sieber  View Original Post
    Dear Dave,
    thanks for your nice post.
    You bring it to the point, the technology is nice, has some potential, but it will require much more effort now to bring it from a prototype to a system that can be used regularly in a rebreather.
    We have especially developed a new electronics, which works quite well, and includes already a lot of gimmicks. In my opinion the real issues will be integration and packaging of the sensors in a way, so that they can withstand "the typical abuse of sensors in a rebreather" ... :) ... meaning they get flushed with water, there may be salt everywhere,... a great challenge, but thats what we like :)

    Thanks for coming to my presentation and thanks again also to Leigh who invited me,

    Best regards, Arne
    Arne, I was also at your presentation and like Dave was amazed at what you have achieved.

    I am now looking forward to seeing you stuff becoming commercially avalable hopefully in the not to distant future.

    Cheers
    Jon

  6. #36
    RBW Member broady has a spectacular aura about broady has a spectacular aura about broady has a spectacular aura about broady has a spectacular aura about broady has a spectacular aura about broady has a spectacular aura about broady's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Likewise - awesome presentation Arne.

    One of my favourites of the show!

    Cheers

    Graham :)

  7. #37
    RBW Member Arne_Sieber is on a distinguished road Arne_Sieber is on a distinguished road Arne_Sieber's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Hello,

    Thanks Jon, Thanks Graham!

    We are now continuing with the developments and at the same time testing the current sensor modules.
    It will take some time, that for sure, till the sensors are ready for the market. Sensors and the sensorbondings are in the current version not suitable for contact with salt water, but we are having some solutions - and will start prototyping hopefully soon.
    For what concerns calibration of the sensors, I guess about 1000 operation hours will be possible. The O2 sensors are quite stable and will need, if at all, few calibrations (that can be performed in a rebreather with flushing with O2). The CO2 sensors are slighly drifting over (long) time, but therefore we have a concept/software that can handle this. Returning of the sensors to the manufacturer for service/recalibration is something what I would like to avoid.

    Best regards, Arne

  8. #38
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    interview with Simon Mitchell about CO2 analyzers in a rebreather

    We have just released a new interview with Dr. Simon Mitchell about CO2 and the use of CO2 analyzers in a rebreather. The interview was done at the Eurotek 2010 show. Great information from an expert on breathing.

    It can be found at Submerge Productions : HD Dive Videos or at the Eurotek TV page.

  9. #39
    Andrey Prokopenko Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless is a name known to all Faceless's Avatar
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    Re: Eurotech 2010

    Quote Originally Posted by Arne_Sieber  View Original Post
    Hello,

    Thanks Jon, Thanks Graham!

    We are now continuing with the developments and at the same time testing the current sensor modules.
    It will take some time, that for sure, till the sensors are ready for the market. Sensors and the sensorbondings are in the current version not suitable for contact with salt water, but we are having some solutions - and will start prototyping hopefully soon.
    For what concerns calibration of the sensors, I guess about 1000 operation hours will be possible. The O2 sensors are quite stable and will need, if at all, few calibrations (that can be performed in a rebreather with flushing with O2). The CO2 sensors are slighly drifting over (long) time, but therefore we have a concept/software that can handle this. Returning of the sensors to the manufacturer for service/recalibration is something what I would like to avoid.

    Best regards, Arne
    Just stumbled upon these posts at RBW.
    Wow, finally smb with really new stuff in this area on the forum.
    Thank you for the updates, very interesting.

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