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Thread: PFO to close or not to close...

  1. #31
    RBW Member gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas's Avatar
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Quote Originally Posted by debersole  View Original Post
    And we would love to have you in our study. DAN: Divers Alert Network - Scuba Diving and Dive Safety Association

    Doug
    filling in the documents now...
    hope you can read French as my TTE results are written in French!

  2. #32
    RBW Member gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas is a glorious beacon of light gtzavelas's Avatar
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reefhugger  View Original Post
    I was recently diagnosed with a PFO and in the process of deciding whether to get it closed or not. I am interested in divers who have a PFO discussing how (as the patient) they came to their decision about whether to have it closed or not. What factors did you consider? What were your biggest concerns? Are you satisfied with your decision?

    Any information is appreciated.

    Bruce Robertson
    Forgot to ask: did they give you a bubble score ? (during Valsala)

  3. #33
    New Member Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    Simon, i am not saying the size of the PFO has anything really to do with DCS.
    Mel,

    These were your words:

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    and you have a PFO whatever size it is well worth a talk to a doctor who understands diving. my PFO was tiny, but after closure my diving became so much safer for me.
    There seems to be a clear implication that closing a tiny PFO makes diving safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    what i was attempting to say is i had a PFO and it was tiny,
    This is the problem, which Doug has clarified (thanks Doug). Your PFO was not tiny in the functional sense. It was a spontaneously shunting lesion. The shunting behavior of the PFO is more important than its physical dimensions and spontaneously shunting lesions, or those that can be easily provoked into shunting large numbers of bubbles are the most important.

    My point is this. By all means discuss your case and your positive view of PFO closure if you wish. But stop calling your PFO "tiny".

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    my diving safety has increased since closure. I can say my safety has increased for a fact. fact i had 5 bends in the year before my closure, fact after my closure i have not had a bend, fact my dives post closure have been way way way more aggressive. so in MY case the closure has increased my safety.
    This is not surprising, and had I seen you with your DCS history and the finding of a spontaneous shunt I would almost certainly have recommended you see Doug after some counselling about risk vs benefit. In your case it looks like you made the right decision.

    Simon M

  4. #34
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Mitchell  View Original Post
    My point is this. By all means discuss your case and your positive view of PFO closure if you wish. But stop calling your PFO "tiny".
    Simon M
    Once again I do not agree with your take on my PFO discussion. As we both agree the size of my PFO was not the issue so much as how much it shunts. So letís agree to disagree on my words and put the preoccupation with size to bed. Whatís the deal with the male fascination with size anyway? Sorry Simon I could not resist! No hard feelings
    Mel

  5. #35
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    It seems to be a very personal, individualized thing and it's clearly about the shunting and not the size. I also have a tiny one (I can hear Mel chuckling already). My PFO was discovered when I insisted on having a TEE before doing tech training years ago. Nothing was seen on the trans-thoracic echo. But the TEE showed some shunting upon deep valsalva. It was also discovered that I have a small (5mm) atrial septal aneurysm. The big difference is that I have never had any symptoms of any kind of DCS. No bends at all. My shunting is only on deep valsalva. I discussed it with 2 top diving docs and we agreed that there was no reason to have mine repaired. I just take a conservative ascent profile and try to be aware of how my body is reacting.

    Maybe its all about the valsalva. While climbing back on the boat after a deep dive, I'm a big strong he-man type who can easily launch himself up the ladder wearing doubles and stages while carrying the boat anchor and a mermaid under each arm. But Mel is a frail, dainty girly-girl who weighs 65 pounds soaking wet and strains hard just lifting her camera. Or maybe it's her bubbly personality and effervescent lifestyle. Or perhaps its because Curt makes her blood boil. For whatever reason, she shunts more than I do and had a lot of symptoms.

    I think the bottom line is that if you have a PFO with shunting, you are more likely to take a hit when others wouldn't have anything, and you are more likely to take a serious hit when others would only have minor symptoms. But I'll leave the conclusions to Doug and his study with DAN. I'm not qualified to participate in the study despite having a known PFO because I've never had any DCS symptoms.

    Ken

  6. #36
    RBW Member Reefhugger is an unknown quantity at this point Reefhugger's Avatar
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Just a note to those in this thread that I started. I decide to go ahead and get my PFO closed. Had Doug Ebersole, MD do the honors. It was well worth the trip to have him do it. He was great at explaining and discussing it as much as I needed. Felt very comfortable and confident in his abilities. Besides he dives a KISS rebreather and we all ready know that they are superior people.

    The procedure was not too difficult. The only negative for me was wishing I had more sedative during the process. Felt quite a bit of it and remembered it which in the long run was not very much of a factor. Doug and all the staff at Lakeland Regional Medical Center were outstanding. Only a bit of soreness for a couple of days, but felt great immediately. A few more weeks off and I'll give it all a test. I would like to offer my experience to anyone considering getting it done. I would be happy to convey my process in any detail needed.

    Bruce Robertson

  7. #37
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Nice one Bruce, keep fit.

    Steve

  8. #38
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    Re: PFO to close or not to close...

    Thanks for the kind words, Bruce. Glad to hear you are doing well after the procedure. Hope to dive with you in the future!

    Doug

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