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Thread: Ray Scrubber question

  1. #11
    Born Again Diver! Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w has a spectacular aura about Dave1w's Avatar
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    I shouldn't say this, but I think I would,also be interested....



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  2. #12
    RBW Member pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs's Avatar
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    Drager Ray

    Homebuild deathtrap

    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    Standard scruber duration
    ok - checked my logs on ~30 dives in the uk, 28 in SCR and two in CCR mode. The longest I've stretched the scrubber is in SCR mode in 8C water in Oban. I did 115 minutes on it at 18-25m and had no discrenable CO2 symptoms. I'm still in the paranoid phase so do look out for these. Most of my dives I've not gone beyond 100 mins (diving with Oc buddies you only get about 50mins a dive).
    Several people have reported longer - Mike
    Westcombe Down reports 150 mins but thats in 18-20C water.
    I'm off to egypt with my unit in feb so I'll see what I get there.
    My guess is that the extra 50% in the scrubber would mean at least 60 mins longer so we're talking 3 hours in the UK.

    I want one !!!!

    chris

  3. #13
    RBW Member mgkarl is on a distinguished road mgkarl is on a distinguished road mgkarl's Avatar
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    Explorer Sport, Inspo Classic

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    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    Depending on the cost of the extended version, I would probably be interested too.

  4. #14
    hell is in the details Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T is just really nice Marc T's Avatar
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    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    found that deep inside my computer

    Trying to turn a toy into a tool is a huge waste of time and money but thats fun and I confess that Ive not been able to stop yet.
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  5. #15
    Matt Matt_Camp is an unknown quantity at this point Matt_Camp's Avatar
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    Drager Ray mCCR, Inspiration

    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    Quote Originally Posted by pegcjs  View Original Post
    Standard scruber duration
    ok - checked my logs on ~30 dives in the uk, 28 in SCR and two in CCR mode. The longest I've stretched the scrubber is in SCR mode in 8C water in Oban. I did 115 minutes on it at 18-25m and had no discrenable CO2 symptoms. I'm still in the paranoid phase so do look out for these. Most of my dives I've not gone beyond 100 mins (diving with Oc buddies you only get about 50mins a dive).
    Several people have reported longer - Mike
    Westcombe Down reports 150 mins but thats in 18-20C water.
    I'm off to egypt with my unit in feb so I'll see what I get there.
    My guess is that the extra 50% in the scrubber would mean at least 60 mins longer so we're talking 3 hours in the UK.

    I want one !!!!

    chris

    But in SCR mode you are venting some of the CO2 along with the nitrogen etc, so in CCR the same scrubber would have a reduced duration. Or am I missing the point? I'm not sure if a 50% increase gives enough time in CCR mode?

    Regards Matt

  6. #16
    Matt Matt_Camp is an unknown quantity at this point Matt_Camp's Avatar
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    Drager Ray mCCR, Inspiration

    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    So far the best price I have is circa 190 Euros including tax for the kit (two pieces) machined from white POM. I'm still looking though.

    Matt

  7. #17
    RBW Member pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs's Avatar
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    Drager Ray

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    Hi matt
    Ok better do the calcs properly.
    My ray is set up (when in SCR mode) at 7.5litres / minute. Exhaled breath contains on average 5% co2 so this means my unodified Ray dumps 0.05x7.5=0.375 litres of co2 per minute.

    Based on my loop fo2 measured I consume 1litre of o2 per minute (well between 0.98 and 1.0 over 28 monitored dives).

    Medics talk about the respiratory ratio being the volume of exhaled co2 divded by the volume of absorbed oxygen as 0.8. So my scrubber must be then absorbing the remaining 0.425 litres of co2 a minute.

    Ive done 120 mins dives ok on this unit without any co2 hit so on these dives my cartridge took 120x0.425=51 litres of co2.

    Having closed the ray and assuming i still consume 1litre oxygen per minute with a resp ratio of 0.8 means that the same co2 will be absorbed in the scrubber in 51/0.8=63.75 mins. So its a 1hour scrubber for a ccr.

    Spherasorb spec says it should be good for 128litres of co2 per kg. The standard ray takes 1.3kg of sorb (i have weighed its contents on our kitchen scales) so that means it is capable of taking 166 litres of co2 in theory. This makes it sound as though 51 litres is pretty much the low end and offers the potential for a lot more.

    I have done 85 mins CCR on my standard cartridge. This was in very cold water. 50% extra on this would be 128 mins so the extended scrubber would then be a 2 hour one. Still pretty good.

    I wonder if the westcombe down number is reliable ? 150 mins is equivalent to 120 litres co2 which is within the 166 litre maximum range for sure. I am sure there must be other measurements but not aware of any at the moment. If this is a sound result then one might ask is extending it worth it ?

    How to proceed ?
    Two things
    Firstly Is there anyone out there who has extended the scrubber and has any data on how long they got ?

    Secondly can anyone maybe check the dimensions of the extended tube and see what the actual increase in sorb volume is ? If the scrubber length increases by 50% the volume of sorb has increased by more as some of the length is empty space at either end. Then the gain is prportonally greater in duration.

    Will think on a little.

    To be honest 190 euro is not such a lot. I guess I could buy a spare drager scrubber tube from w+s for 120 euro. This could be cut on half , extended with pvc tube and then an inner extension made using 32mm plumbing. Given the effort in this getting the whole job done for €190 which is £160 sounds pretty reasonable. Mind you i gues one could just cut the existing tube in half... If i was feeling brave....







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  8. #18
    RBW Member pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs's Avatar
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    Drager Ray

    Homebuild deathtrap

    Just realised that actual scrubber volume is 1.5litres so the actual depth of scrubber in the cartridge is ~14.5cm. if one extends the tube to 310mm from 210mm then the volume of sorb goes up to 2.55litres or a scrubber mass of 2.2kg. Thats a lifetime increase of 1.7. So my 85 mins goes up to 144.

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    Last edited by pegcjs; 20th January 2013 at 23:37.

  9. #19
    Matt Matt_Camp is an unknown quantity at this point Matt_Camp's Avatar
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    Drager Ray mCCR, Inspiration

    Re: Ray Scrubber question

    The extended scrubber drawing that I have is attached (I think). The total tube length is 310mm and you drop about 30mm off each end for the end caps and plastic mesh etc.

    As an SCR scrubber it was called the 3hr scrubber but I don't know if this is verified. The 190 Euros is based on this drawing made from white POM.

    I asked about scrubber duration because the length could easily be increased if needed although this bumps the price up a bit. I don't know how these changes will affect the WOB. Sounds like a few people have dived with this extended scrubber with no adverse comments.

    I have sent these drawings to Martin at Tecme. You can place your order direct with him. He is going to give me a reference number that you can quote. I will post it ASAP.

    Regards, Matt
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  10. #20
    RBW Member pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs will become famous soon enough pegcjs's Avatar
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    Drager Ray

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    It sounds ok. The inspiration uses 2.5kgs of sorb for a rated 3 hour duration so getting 2.2 kg should be good for about 2hrs 40mins.
    I reckon that should be more than enough for me.

    Chris

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