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Thread: PFO possible occluder failure

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    RBW Member humpbackdiving is an unknown quantity at this point humpbackdiving's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by lyndhurst  View Original Post
    Most cardiologists will organise a transthoracic bubble test about three months after the device is placed. If it is not shut at that time, then you may have another test 3-6 months later.
    Sorry but the transthoracic test is very very unpleasant and very often not that helpful. If the bubble test is perfomed by a good specialist ecg is much better.... and more pleasant - info from my "PFO locksmith"

    After my first and last TOE the first cardiologist said that I had PFO but it could be either big... or small (glad we narrowed that one down). Mark Turner who closed my pfo did the test again and was able to tell me how big it was from the chest scan.

    Greg

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    RBW Member lyndhurst is on a distinguished road lyndhurst is on a distinguished road lyndhurst's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by humpbackdiving  View Original Post
    Sorry but the transthoracic test is very very unpleasant and very often not that helpful. If the bubble test is perfomed by a good specialist ecg is much better.... and more pleasant - info from my "PFO locksmith"

    After my first and last TOE the first cardiologist said that I had PFO but it could be either big... or small (glad we narrowed that one down). Mark Turner who closed my pfo did the test again and was able to tell me how big it was from the chest scan.

    Greg
    Humpback, not sure if you are understanding this. The transthoracic test means the probe us placed on your chest, and the echo is done across your thoracic cavity. Nothing unpleasant about it at all. No sedation. You are confusing this with a TOE (trans oesophageal echo) where a probe is put down your oesophagus and behind your heart. That is not very pleasant.

    The transthoracic test is fine if done properly with a bubble mix. Allows a clear estimation of the degree of shunting, can be done with or without exercise etc. Often during placement of the device, a simultaneous TOE is performed to give finer anatomical detail. Almost always done under general anaesthesthia.

    regards

    Paul

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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Transesophageal echos are performed with "conscious sedation" and NOT general anesthesia. From a patient's perspective, this is semantics however. You are sleepy and don't usually remember much of the procedure.

    Additionally, there are times when we can gather all of the information we need from a transthoracic (on the chest wall) echo to plan a closure procedure but the quality of imaging is extremely variable from patient to patient and influenced by body size, smoking history, ..... Regardless, during the actual closure procedure itself, at least I can speak for the US, there is both x-ray imaging and some form of echo guidance which is either transesophageal echo or even (in the procedures I do) intracardiac echo.

    By the way, I am still looking for patients who have a known PFO and continue to dive -- regardless of whether they have elected to have the PFO closed or are diving with it still open. Petar Denoble of Divers Alert Network and I are co-investigators on the protocol and are looking for 100 participants. We are about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way there. If you or someone you know is interested in participating, let me know. My email is debersole@pol.net. Thanks!

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    RBW Member lyndhurst is on a distinguished road lyndhurst is on a distinguished road lyndhurst's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by debersole  View Original Post
    Transesophageal echos are performed with "conscious sedation" and NOT general anesthesia. From a patient's perspective, this is semantics however. You are sleepy and don't usually remember much of the procedure.
    As you say, probably semantics. When I perform invasive day procedures, one of my anaesthetists refers the sedation as a "GA", and the other does not. For the sake of the lay people on the forum, the fact is you are asleep. That is all that matters. A transthoracic is done without you being asleep.

    Not wanting to drift away from the original post, the fact is that you really should have some form of confirmatory imaging after placement of a PFO occlusion device, and if the OP has not had this done, he/she should discuss it with the interventional cardiologist who inserted the device

    Cheers

    Paul

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    RBW Member humpbackdiving is an unknown quantity at this point humpbackdiving's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by debersole  View Original Post
    Transesophageal echos are performed with "conscious sedation" and NOT general anesthesia. From a patient's perspective, this is semantics however. You are sleepy and don't usually remember much of the procedure.
    I was wide awake.... I must have been checked by a butcher than a cardiologist

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    RBW Member nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    I appreciate everyone who has responded in the post and shared their experiences it has made for some valuable reading.

    Those who have had it closed are you able to provide me the name of the surgeon that performance the closure i would love to contact them. I know that i am in Australia but if i am unable to find someone who will perform the operation here i would be willing to travel to have this task performed.

    If you do not wish to post please PM me any information on this subject. i am trying to way up all options on pros and cons on performing this task and the more information i have the better.

    regards

    Nick

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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by nwindle  View Original Post
    I appreciate everyone who has responded in the post and shared their experiences it has made for some valuable reading.

    Those who have had it closed are you able to provide me the name of the surgeon that performance the closure i would love to contact them. I know that i am in Australia but if i am unable to find someone who will perform the operation here i would be willing to travel to have this task performed.

    If you do not wish to post please PM me any information on this subject. i am trying to way up all options on pros and cons on performing this task and the more information i have the better.

    regards

    Nick
    contact doug ebersole the guy three posts above!! he is a cardiologist and a ccr tech diver so he knows what we need
    good luck.
    mel

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    RBW Member nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle will become famous soon enough nwindle's Avatar
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    contact doug ebersole the guy three posts above!! he is a cardiologist and a ccr tech diver so he knows what we need
    good luck.
    mel
    Thanks Mel :)

  9. #19
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    Re: PFO possible occluder failure

    email sent

    Doug

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