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Thread: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

  1. #11
    RebreatherWorld Sponsor tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao has a spectacular aura about tdzao's Avatar
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    If you want the petition to have any chance of success, the petition must clearly state:

    - How marketing the sensors for CCR will increase Teledyne's profits, while simultaneously decreasing liabilities and associated legal costs

    If you can't give a hard case as to how it will benefit their business, then don't even bother, it will have no effect. Just saying that you 'disagree' with their decision is pointless.


    Eric Fattah
    Liquivision Products

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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by tdzao  View Original Post
    If you want the petition to have any chance of success, the petition must clearly state:

    - How marketing the sensors for CCR will increase Teledyne's profits, while simultaneously decreasing liabilities and associated legal costs

    If you can't give a hard case as to how it will benefit their business, then don't even bother, it will have no effect. Just saying that you 'disagree' with their decision is pointless.


    Eric Fattah
    Liquivision Products
    Thanks Eric.

    This was never my motivation behind the petition - to proof the business viability. I'm just acting here as a concerned diver in unity with others to tell what we think and how much impact it might have on us not them. I have already stated my position in the following post.

    I don't expect anything, but would be happy to hear their response to it. Again, it doesn't hurt to try.
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  3. #13
    not RBW staff. EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT has a reputation beyond repute EBT's Avatar
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Pawel Szopinski  View Original Post
    This was never my motivation behind the petition - to proof the business viability. I'm just acting here as a concerned diver in unity with others to tell what we think and how much impact it might have on us not them.
    Pawel,

    Of course you're entitled to your opinion and to be able to voice it. Im with Eric though, this is unlikely to have an impact so I can understand why many folks won't bother "signing" it.


    /zak

    ps. Will you sign my petition to Katherine Heigl, she keeps refusing to visit. Shocker.

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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by EBT  View Original Post
    Of course you're entitled to your opinion and to be able to voice it. Im with Eric though, this is unlikely to have an impact so I can understand why many folks won't bother "signing" it.
    Maybe because they share the very same opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by EBT  View Original Post
    ps. Will you sign my petition to Katherine Heigl, she keeps refusing to visit. Shocker.
    It's not exactly like your life relies on it.
    Last edited by Pawel Szopinski; 14th April 2010 at 12:36.
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    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by EBT  View Original Post
    Pawel,

    Of course you're entitled to your opinion and to be able to voice it. Im with Eric though, this is unlikely to have an impact so I can understand why many folks won't bother "signing" it.


    /zak

    ps. Will you sign my petition to Katherine Heigl, she keeps refusing to visit. Shocker.
    (Jez, I go on Holiday for a week and look what happens!)

    I'd wager people will want to avoid adding to the online mass of cell related information as it seems that is in part what has figured in Teledynes choice to leave the sector, given all the reasons they have for leaving (and so little for staying) whats to say other cell manufacturers will want to be associated with diving for much longer?

    As users our voice is relatively small, its the rebreather manufacturers who stand to lose most and have the biggest voice with which to act so I think this is best left to those who can have an impact (IMVHO)

    PS- Just in case I'm setting up some Rebreather to OC crossovers for all your fanboys who didn't bother with your OC certs and won't be able to buy gas when your last set of cells croak

  6. #16
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post

    PS- Just in case I'm setting up some Rebreather to OC crossovers for all your fanboys who didn't bother with your OC certs and won't be able to buy gas when your last set of cells croak

    lol lmao

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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    I agree as well. They're action's impact on us obviously isn't costing them anything serious so I'd be surprised if they care. Process and med buyers aren't going to care about the adverse publicity, if anything they're probably quite glad of it because there's less chance of their chosen supplier being sued to buggery by someone who thought a £50 piece of plastic was life support. We confirm Teledyne's view of divers as being whingers that are more hassle than they are worth.

    PS- Just in case I'm setting up some Rebreather to OC crossovers for all your fanboys who didn't bother with your OC certs and won't be able to buy gas when your last set of cells croak
    Oh how I'd chuckle at all the holier-than-thous who whinged at me for complaining about not being able to get rebreather bottles filled with mix without a Mod3 card when they can't get their twinsets filled I can dream... might have to include that Heigl bint as well...

  8. #18
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments


  9. #19

    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    I have already signed the petition. But i do not think that this will have an effect on there decisions. What i think is that all the manufacturers of our units have to take a strong stand re-this situation and they should supply us with an alternative solution because we are there customers. When i bought my rebreather i have no idea about the name Teledyne Analytical Instrument i just bought the unit i like.
    My question now is if this situation persists all the manufacturers will stop manufacturing new units?

    nader
    Last edited by N.Bassily; 24th April 2010 at 20:55.

  10. #20
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    Re: Petition to Teledyne Analytical Instruments

    Signed it...but I am certain it will make absolutely no difference. Teledyne knows better than any of us what their annual sensor sales are and what their profit margins are. They know damned well that the potential for liability is almost unlimited.

    I am not a lawyer (yet), but I am in law school [insert lawyer jokes here]. Teledyne was already named as a defendant in Barrett v. Ambient Pressure Diving, Ltd. and I'm sure it has cost them a fortune in legal bills. I'm sure they are named in other suits as well, but those are not published.

    The bottom line here is that people die on rebreathers. My view is that those deaths are 99.9% user error (as are most diving accidents because if you could react perfectly in every situation, you likely could figure out a way to survive), but that is simply not the way the law sees it.

    A injured party (or their decedents) can sue all parties and recover from any of them. This means that if Teledyne sells a sensor to someone who dies on a KISS or Inspiration or any other unit, the party can sue them all and recover from any of them individually. It is then up to the manufacturers to sort it out between themselves.

    In products liability there are three types of defects: 1) Manufacturing defect (the manufacturer screwed up making that particular item), 2) Design defect (all of them are faulty), and 3) Warning defect (warnings not clear, conspicuous, etc).

    The most likely one here is 2) Design defect. For that, a plaintiff only needs to show that the product (the entire rebreather unit) failed to perform as safely as an ordinary reasonable consumer would expect in a foreseeable manner of use. Obviously what the ordinary rebreather customer expects is a difficult thing to finalize (even when we are talking amongst ourselves on RBW), which means this is a question for the jury (expensive litigation). The only other way that design defects can be looked at is under a risk-utility test where one looks at the burden of making the product safer compared to the probability of harm multiplied by the harm that could arise. This formula is not an exact science, especially when we are talking about the value of human lives, but what it does bring up is that in court, if the plaintiff can show that an extra coat of sealant or slightly different design would have prevented the harm, then that is it.

    The bottom line is that there is no way in hell that I would sell sensors to the rebreather market if I had any possible way to produce a sensor and sell it elsewhere. My decision would be based on the extraordinarily high incidence of death compared to the number of users. Just look at the statistics in some of the other threads. I'd rather sell oxygen sensors to base-jumpers (I'm not sure what they would use them for though).

    Sorry for the bummer. You may want to prepare yourselves to jimmy-rig sensors in the future to make them suitable for use.

    Aloha,
    Charlie

    Disclaimer: This post does not constitute legal advice. I am not a lawyer. I am just a stupid rebreather diver. Do not take anything I say seriously as it is intended for entertainment purposes only. The views of the writer are not necessarily those of anyone who is qualified to write about anything at all. If you have read this entire post, then you have way too much time on your hands.

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