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Thread: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

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    RBW Member Crofter is an unknown quantity at this point Crofter's Avatar
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    AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    After 10 years of CCR diving with several dives to 100m, I have the opportunity in 2010 to dive Transylvania & Tuscania off Malin Head, Ireland. These wrecks lie in over 100m, and up to 135m.

    Water temperature up there is 14 to 16 Deg C.

    Has anyone regularly dived the Evo to these depths without major modification?

    I have pulled 3½ hours on mine without any scrubber issues.

    Other than the obvious bailout, CNS and variables that diving to these depths require, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a good level of experience and regularly conducts dives in UK conditions / temperatures.

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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    With regard to UK conditions can't comment as I'm fortunate enough to be based in the Red Sea.

    However we are regularly taking standard Evo's to 120m+. This summer we did multiple days with 6 divers at depths of 150m with no problems. All dives on 797 and only 797 don't use anything else especially in cold water. Only problem is the O2 supply as at that depth for that deco duration the 2ltr. on-board is limiting. Just had Paul from rEvo out here and they all took 3ltr. tins for the 211m dive. The 2ltr. ain't enough but its easy to get around either by having a seperate O2 bail out 1ltr. is more then enough or by injecting your rich deco mix stage gas on the ascent.

    What ever happens have fun it sounds bloody great but cold!

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    RBW Member Crofter is an unknown quantity at this point Crofter's Avatar
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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Thanks for the info.
    I have only used and will only ever use 797. With regard to O2, naturally offboard would be carried as standard practice for dives of this nature. I also have a 7mm neoprene cover on my scrubber housing to keep the efficiency up. It's just good to hear i'm not the first to take the Evo to these depths.

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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    What I forgot to question in my previous posting was the use of the Vision Electronics for decompression on dives over 100m.

    I know AP quote "Vision Electronics not valid beyond 100m" but, is this really the case? Naturally backup tables would be cut and cross referenced throughout the deco.

    Has anyone solely relied on the Vision for dives in excess of 120m?

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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    I'm not sure it makes much difference but I've dived that area twice in summer and never for more than 11degrees at depth, maybe 12-14 at deco if we where lucky, seeing as your taking a considered approah I thought this might be of interest, good luck and enjoy!

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    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Quote Originally Posted by safagamarc  View Original Post
    With regard to UK conditions can't comment as I'm fortunate enough to be based in the Red Sea.

    However we are regularly taking standard Evo's to 120m+. This summer we did multiple days with 6 divers at depths of 150m with no problems. All dives on 797 and only 797 don't use anything else especially in cold water. Only problem is the O2 supply as at that depth for that deco duration the 2ltr. on-board is limiting. Just had Paul from rEvo out here and they all took 3ltr. tins for the 211m dive. The 2ltr. ain't enough but its easy to get around either by having a seperate O2 bail out 1ltr. is more then enough or by injecting your rich deco mix stage gas on the ascent.

    What ever happens have fun it sounds bloody great but cold!


    LOL I wish it were 14c it would be lovely and warm in my dry suit :D


    ATB

    Mark

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    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Crofter  View Original Post
    After 10 years of CCR diving with several dives to 100m, I have the opportunity in 2010 to dive Transylvania & Tuscania off Malin Head, Ireland. These wrecks lie in over 100m, and up to 135m.

    Water temperature up there is 14 to 16 Deg C.

    Has anyone regularly dived the Evo to these depths without major modification?

    I have pulled 3½ hours on mine without any scrubber issues.

    Other than the obvious bailout, CNS and variables that diving to these depths require, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a good level of experience and regularly conducts dives in UK conditions / temperatures.



    I have dived Mallin head a dozen or more times and in August you will be lucky to have 10c-12c on the bottom with 14 or less on deco on a good day. In 07 we had 10-12c max in Aug.

    According to Daron, when its warm the viz is worse. It certainly was this year.

    I did some research for a planned dive on the Transylvania and a couple of friends who have dived it tell me it is a 130 -135m dive on the wreck. So don't go down expecting to be 135 to the sea bed and 120 on the wreck.

    As above, the Evo is not the tool for the job but thats mainly due to its small cylinders so running it with bigger tanks is the answer. Scrubber on the unit will be maxed with APs Sofnalime and should be OK for 5 hours on a good fill but thats way outside guidelines so don't blame me if you get a hit :D

    I have done just over six hours on the normal inspo scrubber running a classic with low work load and my SAC of 15 avg.

    I assume you have a temp stick?

    Having done a couple of 3 1/2- 4 hour dives in Malin in Aug, id say your biggest challenge would be keeping warm. I dive an 03 Neo suit with Santi 200G under suit and an Exotherm Arctic base layer for dives like this. Its very cumbersome but It makes the last hour of deco much nicer.

    If we had got on the Trany lest year id have bought a heated vest that I could switch on and off during deco.


    As for deco? You will be running big CNS numbers no matter what you do, unless you just bounce the wreck.

    I do air breaks on loop running diluent at .7 for 5mins out of every 20 after 120% CNS So far so good, but its all voodoo. So next time may be the time that proves me wrong.

    For this kind of deco id run a gag on the loop in case i toxed and id clip a short john line to me and the deco station. Keeping warm and comfortable is very important with high CNS, which takes you back to the heated suit.

    I don't know what sort of deco numbers you normally run but unless your diluent switching on ascent you will need to be running high GFs for shallow deco to keep within scrubber durations. I run the shearwater on 20/100 for deeper dives and then having cleared at 6m id pad as I feel on the day.

    20/85 or similar just gives massive numbers and isn't really workable IMHO again unless your just bouncing the wreck.

    I did a plan with 10/70 using a triple diluent flush of off board 18/45 at 60 and 50% at 18m. That seemed to make a significant difference on the numbers. I have used this before on a dive to 106m and it seemed OK. But again its voodoo.

    No deco program is tested properly below 100m so id not worry to much about the caveat on the Evo. Just accept your well into crash test dummy deco :D


    Your next good laugh will be planning bailout :D


    ATB

    Mark

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    RBW Member Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown has a spectacular aura about Moray Brown's Avatar
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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Get in contact with CharlieT. He was there this year, and will give you first hand information as there was Inspirations & Evolutions.

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=28522

    Quote Originally Posted by Crofter  View Original Post
    After 10 years of CCR diving with several dives to 100m, I have the opportunity in 2010 to dive Transylvania & Tuscania off Malin Head, Ireland. These wrecks lie in over 100m, and up to 135m.

    Water temperature up there is 14 to 16 Deg C.

    Has anyone regularly dived the Evo to these depths without major modification?

    I have pulled 3½ hours on mine without any scrubber issues.

    Other than the obvious bailout, CNS and variables that diving to these depths require, I would be interested to hear from anyone who has a good level of experience and regularly conducts dives in UK conditions / temperatures.

  9. #9
    RBW Member Crofter is an unknown quantity at this point Crofter's Avatar
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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Mark,

    Cheers for the heads up. I was with you in 2007 on Dave Burke's trip.

    I have also dived Malin on several occasions in the past decade, a couple of times in mid september when the temp is up a bit. I certainly don't expect to be sweating either way

    With regard to bailout, there is no question that any dive to this sort of depth has to be reliant on support both in the water & topside. It's already been proven in controlled circumstances that a successful o/c bailout from 100m+ is virtually impossible.

    Thanks again.

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    Re: AP Evolution @ 120m+ ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Crofter  View Original Post
    What I forgot to question in my previous posting was the use of the Vision Electronics for decompression on dives over 100m.

    I know AP quote "Vision Electronics not valid beyond 100m" but, is this really the case? Naturally backup tables would be cut and cross referenced throughout the deco.

    Has anyone solely relied on the Vision for dives in excess of 120m?
    IMO, these types of dives are best accomplished using two computers. Regardless of whether it is Vision Electronics or another computer, at those types of depths, I would want a couple of different options to look at. Tables are fine in a pinch, but they don't allow you easy realtime comparisons, especially when you are at test crash dummy depths.

    Just my $.02

    Good luck with your dives! Sounds like a blast!

    Regards,
    Randy

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