+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

  1. #1
    New Member
    saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New York NY, Los Angeles CA, Dallas TX
    Posts
    712
    Mk15.5, Prism, Prism2

    Ray, Dolphin, Mk15

    Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Question:

    Would simple heart rate monitors such as are in use with the Scubapro Galileo computer be able to show us anything potentially interesting if combined with CO2 loop data, or would more sophisticated traces (EKG) be required to draw any valid conclusions?
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Winston Churchill
    A is A

  2. #2
    Shearwater Copis Diver Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    2,011
    Copis Meg and rEvo III

    Evolution

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    the thing that excites me the most about Co2 and He monitoring in the loop is the prospects of combining that top side with biometrics such as heart rate monitoring, blood o2 and blood co2 and a hyperbaric chamber... there is so much to be learned about whether loop gasses truly correlate to dill content the way we think it does and whether blood gasses correlate as nicely with loop gasses as we on and off gas from deep tissue compartments.

    I'm very interested in seeing the relationship of co2 in the loop and co2 retention in the blood, I'd put money on it that you could recreate circumstances where someone is sure they got a "hit" without there being any co2 in the inhale side of the loop. this is where we will finally see just how much WOB plays a part in co2 retention and if it's as deadly as some of us suspect.

    In loop gas monitoring probably has as much to add to research as it does to diver during a dive.
    g
    Last edited by Gill Envy; 18th November 2009 at 15:21.

    Gill Envy

  3. #3
    DOH! 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Columbia Heights, MN
    Posts
    1,024
    IDA72 - sorrta

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill Envy  View Original Post
    the thing that excites me the most about Co2 and He monitoring in the loop is the prospects of combining that top side with biometrics such as heart rate monitoring, blood o2 and blood co2 and a hyperbaric chamber... there is so much to be learned about whether loop gasses truly correlate to dill content the way we think it does and whether blood gasses correlate as nicely with loop gasses as we on and off gas from deep tissue compartments.

    I'm very interested in seeing the relationship of co2 in the loop and co2 retention in the blood, I'd put money on it that you could recreate circumstances where someone is sure they got a "hit" without there being any co2 in the inhale side of the loop. this is where we will finally see just how much WOB plays a part in co2 retention and if it's as deadly as some of us suspect.

    In loop gas monitoring probably has as much to add to research as it does to diver during a dive.
    g
    any reason a pulse oximeter couldn't be used while diving? (not attached to finger)

    curious,
    Hunter

  4. #4
    New Member
    saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New York NY, Los Angeles CA, Dallas TX
    Posts
    712
    Mk15.5, Prism, Prism2

    Ray, Dolphin, Mk15

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill Envy  View Original Post
    the thing that excites me the most about Co2 and He monitoring in the loop is the prospects of combining that top side with biometrics such as heart rate monitoring, blood o2 and blood co2 and a hyperbaric chamber... there is so much to be learned about whether loop gasses truly correlate to dill content the way we think it does and whether blood gasses correlate as nicely with loop gasses as we on and off gas from deep tissue compartments.

    I'm very interested in seeing the relationship of co2 in the loop and co2 retention in the blood, I'd put money on it that you could recreate circumstances where someone is sure they got a "hit" without there being any co2 in the inhale side of the loop. this is where we will finally see just how much WOB plays a part in co2 retention and if it's as deadly as some of us suspect.

    In loop gas monitoring probably has as much to add to research as it does to diver during a dive.
    g
    Absolutely! The volume of insight could be enormous, which is why I have been beating the crap out of the issue of CO2 monitor accuracy. It would be really nice if we could get it right the first time!

    I'm wondering if we could get a pulse oximeter to work underwater and if CCR divers would willingly wear them. That combined with a HRM might give us something of interest, certainly more than we have now. I'm just trying to figure out if that type of data would hold any meaning or relevance for research combined with accurate CO2 data.
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Winston Churchill
    A is A

  5. #5
    New Member
    saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas has a brilliant future saveourseas's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    New York NY, Los Angeles CA, Dallas TX
    Posts
    712
    Mk15.5, Prism, Prism2

    Ray, Dolphin, Mk15

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    any reason a pulse oximeter couldn't be used while diving? (not attached to finger)

    curious,
    Hunter
    Separated at birth apparently.
    "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results." Winston Churchill
    A is A

  6. #6
    rEject TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS is a jewel in the rough TJS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    541

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Some of the boys participated in a study a couple weeks ago for a university, they strapped on EKGs then performed different tasks at different depths. I don't know when this will be published but it seems right up your alley, they were using rebreathers.

  7. #7
    DOH! 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Columbia Heights, MN
    Posts
    1,024
    IDA72 - sorrta

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    something I found, here is a snip-it of the whole:

    Thus, one particular object of the present invention is to integrate a novel nasal pulse oximeter probe of the present invention with a nasal cannula. Another particular object of the present invention is to integrate a pulse oximeter probe with either a self-container breath apparatus (SCBA) or with the regulator of a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus (SCUBA). Blood oxygen measurements obtained by the so integrated pulse oximeter probe then are used to regulate the percentage oxygen in the supply of gas to the user, and/or to regulate the flow rate to the user upon inhalation. In the case of a SCBA apparatus that is combined with a pulse oximeter probe and oximeter, where that mask is worn in environments with toxic or noxious atmospheres, a critical role of the sensor is to indicate to the user when they are becoming hypoxemic, i.e. when there are potentially dangerous gases leaking into the mask. In the case of a SCUBA apparatus that is combined with a pulse oximeter probe and oximeter, for any dive the oximeter can provide information related to the formation of an air embolus. For deep dives, where specialty mixed gases are used and oxygen concentration in such mixtures are actually reduced from its concentration in air, the oximeter data on blood oxygen saturation provides a warning of current or pending hypoxemia. When further combined with a control to adjust the relative concentration of oxygen to other gases, this device serves to increase the relative oxygen concentration delivered to the diver when the oximeter data trend so indicates the need.


    Here is the actual patent:
    Attached Files

  8. #8
    DOH! 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68 is a splendid one to behold 19Hunter68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Columbia Heights, MN
    Posts
    1,024
    IDA72 - sorrta

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    my .pdf conversion didn't allow the links too work so here is a pdf of the pics of the invention and the link to the original web page:

    Specially configured lip/cheek pulse oximeter/photoplethysmography probes, selectively with sampler for capnography, and covering sleeves for same - Patent 7127278
    Attached Files

  9. #9
    Shearwater Copis Diver Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    2,011
    Copis Meg and rEvo III

    Evolution

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    Quote Originally Posted by saveourseas  View Original Post
    Absolutely! The volume of insight could be enormous, which is why I have been beating the crap out of the issue of CO2 monitor accuracy. It would be really nice if we could get it right the first time!

    I'm wondering if we could get a pulse oximeter to work underwater and if CCR divers would willingly wear them. That combined with a HRM might give us something of interest, certainly more than we have now. I'm just trying to figure out if that type of data would hold any meaning or relevance for research combined with accurate CO2 data.
    Yes! IMHO, and in some ways, we've all been barking up the wrong tree focusing so much on what's in the loop when what's in the blood is really what matters... of course there is a close relationship, but i suspect we are in for some surprises as we can more closely correlate the two.

    if we could actually track biometrics while diving, that would be outstanding, i'm sure it's duable, just one more set of batteries, circuit boards and sensors to strap on.

    One of my suspicions is that since blood co2 can skyrocket at the drop of a hat, that breathing can quickly become strained, that cardiac strain probably also jumps, along with stress hormones too ... making the perfect toxic cocktail for a stress induced heart attack. totally anecdotal I know, but I have experienced more stressful momentous heart pounding moments on a rebreather in just a few years than in the previous 10 years of OC... I suspect there is something extra taxing on the cardio vascular/pulminary system about CCR diving and I dont' think we've quite put our fingers on it yet.

    g

    Gill Envy

  10. #10
    rEvo combat swimmer fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman has a reputation beyond repute fireman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    chicago
    Posts
    850
    rEvo

    Orca

    Re: Heart rate monitors & CO2 effects

    I've been using a rectal model for years...

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts