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Thread: Balloon Helium for diving ?

  1. #21
    Reads fine print (mostly) Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    Making the notation right now. Heyydude goes on the naughty list.
    Goes on? Heck, he's been a permanent fixture there for DECADES!!

  2. #22
    Down to no good kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter has a reputation beyond repute kwinter's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    Goes on? Heck, he's been a permanent fixture there for DECADES!!
    Santa believes in giving all kiddies a fresh start each year. Kevin did pretty well this year. He made it until May.

    Ken

  3. #23
    Supporting Member Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    Santa believes in giving all kiddies a fresh start each year. Kevin did pretty well this year. He made it until May.

    Ken
    He didn't make it that far before he got on MY list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    I could just be blowing smoke out my butt.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
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  4. #24
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Quote Originally Posted by n2diving  View Original Post
    There is a bit more to the issue than mentioned so far. The local handling of the cylinder charging process is much as described previously. The practice of addition of O2 to balloon grade varies in the US, and is mandated by some states and not by others.

    In the US, the overriding concern for use of helium for diving is the contamination of the helium with methane. Most helium available in the US is 'mined', i.e. we dig it out of the ground, it is produced as a by-product of natural gas production. (Those following the gulf oil spill have learned that an estimate of 50% of the flow out of the well head is methane, i.e. natural gas.) There are roughly seven physical plants in the US that refine helium and each of the different plants operates a process that ultimately produces a different purity. One plant (I'm told the oldest) in the US produces helium that is approximately 3% methane, and some of the plants produce helium that is very highly refined five nines pure.

    Helium is sold and transported in the US in bulk using 'tube trailers'. If you have spent any time on the interstate highways you will probably have seen one. The major gas houses own their own fleet, the regional tier under the majors just rent the tube trailers and the little guys (your local welding supply house) probably just truck their cylinders over to be filled by one of the majors. The majors buy in bulk on contract and their supply is of a consistent quality that is a function of the refining plant they use. The second tier regionals and small guys will 'shop around' for their supply, although they usually have established relationships as well.

    Thus, once you know the purity of the grade you are receiving, in all likelyhood that purity will remain consistent since the cylinders are all filled from the same tap and the differences are in handling and paperwork. However, the the supplier can and occassionally does change helium 'manufactuerers' or even (as a result of logistics issues) make a fill in on the spot market. The further down the 'supplier food chain' the diver making the purchase of helium, the greater the chance that the ultimate source of the helium (and thus the purity) might change without warning.

    This is exactly the case for my dive shop. My supplier buys helium on contract from a major in Miami. That majors helium is all highly refined five nines pure, and the difference is just the handling and paperwork. However, occassionally the Miami supplier is 'out' of helium and my local supplier will temporarily truck the cylinders for fills to a different major in Tampa. The Tampa helium is much less pure and contains enough methane to make it, IMO, unsuitable for diving. For this reason, I now purchase only 'ultra high purity' grade which is always five nines pure.

    I'm not aware of any studies of the effects of methane contamination in diving gas. However, conventional wisdom is it causes several noticable physical effects on the dive that could be quite dangerous. Tom Mount, of IANTD in Miami, relates a personal close call he attributes to methane contamination and following that experience he strongly prefers to use five nines pure helium. As a retail dive shop, I can't accept the risk of selling mixtures using balloon grade helium, but I'm aware of several other shops and individuals who have used it for years without incident.

    I haven't seen it myself, but I've been told that Don Six releases 6 times as much Methane as he ongasses Helium.

    On RBW, his Methane Release Factor varies with what rig he's talking about, nearing the 100% rate when the subject of his Hammerhead Experience is discussed.

    Since Methane is a Greenhouse Gas, even Al Gore said in an interview that keeping Don from talking about the Hammerhead is "crucial for the sake of the planet..."






    Kevin.

  5. #25
    Richie Burr diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Don,

    What did you ever do to get this much abuse? Oh yeah....That's right. Never mind.

    Richie

  6. #26
    Supporting Member Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Quote Originally Posted by heyydude  View Original Post
    I haven't seen it myself, but I've been told that Don Six releases 6 times as much Methane as he ongasses Helium.

    On RBW, his Methane Release Factor varies with what rig he's talking about, nearing the 100% rate when the subject of his Hammerhead Experience is discussed.

    Since Methane is a Greenhouse Gas, even Al Gore said in an interview that keeping Don from talking about the Hammerhead is "crucial for the sake of the planet..."






    Kevin.
    Quote Originally Posted by n2diving  View Original Post
    Perhaps Kevin has found me a new helium supplier. Take Don to the back, hook him to the compressor intake, put a Hammerhead rebreather on his back and ask him how he feels about Kevin. Although to get ultra high purity, I suspect I would have to ask Kevin to come down and actually stand in front of Don, that or there would need to be a major change in Don's diet.
    Quote Originally Posted by diverreb  View Original Post
    Don,

    What did you ever do to get this much abuse? Oh yeah....That's right. Never mind.

    Richie
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    I could just be blowing smoke out my butt.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    And note the wisdom from DSix36
    MY ADVICE AND POSTS ARE WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR THEM!!!!!!
    POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS SO YESTERDAY AND I AM DONE WITH IT!!!!!

  7. #27
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    HAMMERHEAD!

    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    It gets worse...


    Mark and Don were diving down in Guatemala when a buddy of theirs asked them if they could help him dig some post holes for a new fence he wanted to install.

    So, they went to the local Ace Hardware and rented a nice 2-man Auger for the task...









    Mark rents an Auger.jpg


    They thought their pal yelling "ˇAlto! Ustedes los hombres son tan estúpidos como cabras!" was Spanish for "Go Faster!".....





    The rest is history. Now the Thornton's have a new Cave System to explore, and Curt can make one of those awesome "rappelling into a cenote" video's...





    Kevin.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36 has a reputation beyond repute Dsix36's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Mark and Myself don't f**k around.

    We git-er-done in a big way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    I could just be blowing smoke out my butt.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwinter  View Original Post
    And note the wisdom from DSix36
    MY ADVICE AND POSTS ARE WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAID FOR THEM!!!!!!
    POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS SO YESTERDAY AND I AM DONE WITH IT!!!!!

  9. #29
    jeff addis swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver has a brilliant future swadiver's Avatar
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    Re: Balloon Helium for diving ?

    Mmmm...... Don standing at the edge of that hole, me behind him, when Oop's, sorry dude, have a nice "dive"!

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