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Thread: "Natural selection" or a better way to dive?

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    RBW Member Grant R is an unknown quantity at this point Grant R's Avatar
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    "Natural selection" or a better way to dive?

    I Don't own of these, but they do seem to be the future of diving. I'm here to learn. I've been looking at rebreathers, read the US navy CCR chapter from their dive manual, and of course hit the internet, which brought me here to find answers to some simple and not so simple questions. Like, should these things be regulated like over-the-counter life supporting medical devices? and, should I buy this one or that one.

    I like the idea of Keep it simple, but then again, this implies that ccr can be simple, which I don't think compared to open circuit it is. I personally dread the idea of having electronics deciding how much oxygen to give me - underwater, but then again. I would idealy prefer a HUD that clearly lets me know when things are working and when they may not be.

    I actually work in a highly regulated medical device environment making software controlled electro-medical devices. CCR is an amazingly un-standardized, unregulated area, which boggles me. But I'd love to own and use one, as long as it isn't too risky.

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    Re: "Natural selection" or a better way to dive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant R  View Original Post
    I Don't own of these, but they do seem to be the future of diving. I'm here to learn. I've been looking at rebreathers, read the US navy CCR chapter from their dive manual, and of course hit the internet, which brought me here to find answers to some simple and not so simple questions. Like, should these things be regulated like over-the-counter life supporting medical devices? and, should I buy this one or that one.

    I like the idea of Keep it simple, but then again, this implies that ccr can be simple, which I don't think compared to open circuit it is. I personally dread the idea of having electronics deciding how much oxygen to give me - underwater, but then again. I would idealy prefer a HUD that clearly lets me know when things are working and when they may not be.

    I actually work in a highly regulated medical device environment making software controlled electro-medical devices. CCR is an amazingly un-standardized, unregulated area, which boggles me. But I'd love to own and use one, as long as it isn't too risky.
    Apparently, Deep Life-OSEL have come up with the answer too this conundrum. Wait for the Apocolypse and then all your CCR diving without risk will be possible.

    Cheers,
    Hunter

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    Nailer99 Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith has much to be proud of Joshua Smith's Avatar
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    Re: "Natural selection" or a better way to dive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant R  View Original Post
    I Don't own of these, but they do seem to be the future of diving. I'm here to learn. I've been looking at rebreathers, read the US navy CCR chapter from their dive manual, and of course hit the internet, which brought me here to find answers to some simple and not so simple questions. Like, should these things be regulated like over-the-counter life supporting medical devices? and, should I buy this one or that one.

    I like the idea of Keep it simple, but then again, this implies that ccr can be simple, which I don't think compared to open circuit it is. I personally dread the idea of having electronics deciding how much oxygen to give me - underwater, but then again. I would idealy prefer a HUD that clearly lets me know when things are working and when they may not be.

    I actually work in a highly regulated medical device environment making software controlled electro-medical devices. CCR is an amazingly un-standardized, unregulated area, which boggles me. But I'd love to own and use one, as long as it isn't too risky.

    Yeah....well.....the thing about that is, it is risky. Most of us accept a pretty high level of personal responsibility when we start diving CCR. I'd be more than happy to talk more about it with you if you want- I live in the Seattle area, too, btw. Feel free to drop me a PM if you wanna talk about Rebreathers.

    -Josh

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    RBW Member Grant R is an unknown quantity at this point Grant R's Avatar
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    Re: "Natural selection" or a better way to dive?

    Boy does this open a can of worms?

    Very Very interesting. I visited the Deep Life website to see what it is they are doing to standardize rebreather safety by using the voluntary certification scheme called CASS. This scheme appears to be highly structured indeed, even using (requiring) that certification be carried out by certification bodies that are accredited under IAF (international accreditation forum) scrutiny. I actually am a member of IAF, so oddly enough, I have some familiarity with what Deep Life and the CASS scheme are suggesting. They suggest that all rebreathers be certified under the CASS scheme. I should point out that CASS and Deep Life are all UK based. I don't know how affiliated they are, but they may have to be independent. If for some reason they create a scheme that favors UK/EU based rebreather makers, it will not be seen as playing fair. It looks like they are trying to play fair, but they do mention EN standards (European Norms) and CE (Conformity European) - which doesn't really warm my North American blood.

    The whole thing (Certification of Rebreathers) under the CASS Scheme is largely based on the notion that if a rebreather is not designed under IEC 61508 "Functional safety of electrical/electronic/programmable electronic safety-related systems". (the CASS scheme certification criteria) it should be questioned. I have to say however, there appears to me to be some contradictions in some things Deep Life is implying. For example, "some ccr manufacturers were not designed by "engineers"". Does this mean that the founder of KISS rebreathers (I don't believe he was an "engineer" - educated) could make a safe rebreather? - Funny thing is Deep Life supplies us with their own risk analysis of rebreathers, which indicates KISS rebreathers have one of the best safety records.

    Don't get me wrong, I thing standardization and certification certainly has a place in making rebreathers, especially in larger production runs. Deep Life makes a good case and has a sound approach. It just shouldn't replace the facts that some people can do better than the standards, even without an engineering degree or certificate under CASS.

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