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Thread: AI Sensors

  1. #1
    RBW Member gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay's Avatar
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    AI Sensors

    My ordeal, with AI, began a while back when I bought four sensors from RW that turned out to be bad. I sent them back to AI with a list of the readings, taken on a pressure pot at 100% O2 @ 1bar (all failed). These particular sensors tested at 7 to 8 mv at 21% but once they were placed on 100% O2 they would not calibrate and would show mv reading way below acceptable standards. I received them back from AI with a note saying that there was nothing wrong with the sensors. I was pretty sure that my testing had been done properly and upon retesting, found out that they are still BAD. It is incredible that a company would have such lousy quality control. I have written AI and they claim that the sensors passed their test. I used narked@90 mini pot to test the sensors and they failed miserably. Also, the HH showed them as FAIL on calibration. I guess I will make a necklace out of them and sell them to the tourist. BEWARE!

  2. #2
    Just add ice & water plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    7 and 8mV are below specs. How was the linearity?

  3. #3
    Nick Cunningham-Moorat scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick is a jewel in the rough scunick's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by gbmay  View Original Post
    My ordeal, with AI, began a while back when I bought four sensors from RW that turned out to be bad. I sent them back to AI with a list of the readings, taken on a pressure pot at 100% O2 @ 1bar (all failed). These particular sensors tested at 7 to 8 mv at 21% but once they were placed on 100% O2 they would not calibrate and would show mv reading way below acceptable standards. I received them back from AI with a note saying that there was nothing wrong with the sensors. I was pretty sure that my testing had been done properly and upon retesting, found out that they are still BAD. It is incredible that a company would have such lousy quality control. I have written AI and they claim that the sensors passed their test. I used narked@90 mini pot to test the sensors and they failed miserably. Also, the HH showed them as FAIL on calibration. I guess I will make a necklace out of them and sell them to the tourist. BEWARE!
    Every AI sensor I have used on my HH CCR has failed within 3 months. They are (excuse the bluntness) crap cells. I have had teledynes now running normally for 9 months. I HATE AI Cells...

    atb

    Nick

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    RBW Member gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by plazma  View Original Post
    7 and 8mV are below specs. How was the linearity?
    Bad as well. 7 to 8mv may calibrate but I agree with you not ideal. I echo everyone's sentiment that AI cells are only good for beach necklaces

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    RBW Member gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay is on a distinguished road gbmay's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by scunick  View Original Post
    Every AI sensor I have used on my HH CCR has failed within 3 months. They are (excuse the bluntness) crap cells. I have had teledynes now running normally for 9 months. I HATE AI Cells...

    atb

    Nick
    Nick, I agree with you I have had significantly less problems with Teledyne cells. The real horror story is that after they agreed to exchange the first batch of cells, which they subsequently returned to me, same crap, I bought four addtiional cells believing their story that they were checking all new cells going out. Yes, I am still beating my head against the wall. An expensive and time consuming ordeal

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    HammerHead ccr IT Marco V is an unknown quantity at this point Marco V's Avatar
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    Red face Re: AI Sensors

    No good experience also for me but 4 years ago. Now I'm trying AI cell another time. Till now they're working correctly...but your messages are not so uplifting

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    RBW Member Terry is an unknown quantity at this point Terry's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    Where is the place and type of cells that are good?

    Who is AI?

    Terry

  8. #8
    Sorta New Member w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley is a name known to all w ripley's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    It's sad, but more people I know and dive with have bad experiences with AI cells. Yet, I don't hear anything bad about Teledyne (if they are replaced within 12 to 18 months). You would think that sooner or later people would catch on.

    Bill
    Bill Ripley

    Rebreathers are something that we have to go to in order to dive the way we want to dive. They are not something we go to for any other reason.

  9. #9
    HammerHead ccr IT Marco V is an unknown quantity at this point Marco V's Avatar
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    Re: AI Sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry  View Original Post
    Where is the place and type of cells that are good?

    Who is AI?

    Terry

    Analytical Industries

  10. #10

    Re: AI Sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by gbmay  View Original Post
    My ordeal, with AI, began a while back when I bought four sensors from RW that turned out to be bad. I sent them back to AI with a list of the readings, taken on a pressure pot at 100% O2 @ 1bar (all failed). These particular sensors tested at 7 to 8 mv at 21% but once they were placed on 100% O2 they would not calibrate and would show mv reading way below acceptable standards. I received them back from AI with a note saying that there was nothing wrong with the sensors. I was pretty sure that my testing had been done properly and upon retesting, found out that they are still BAD. It is incredible that a company would have such lousy quality control. I have written AI and they claim that the sensors passed their test. I used narked@90 mini pot to test the sensors and they failed miserably. Also, the HH showed them as FAIL on calibration. I guess I will make a necklace out of them and sell them to the tourist. BEWARE!

    Subject: Response to Rebreather World Forum re: George May

    We here at Analytical Industries are more than a little concerned about the comments appearing in this forum and, as I have pointed out before, have decided to address the issues and be as objective as possible in the process.

    Regarding your August 23-24, 2009 e-mail communication with our Analytical Industries, I see you followed through on your promise to “share your experience with others”. I certainly don’t dispute your right to voice your opinion. However, I do feel your comments lack objectivity and I would like to clarify your concerns about the quality control here at Analytical Industries.

    To recap our mutual experience . . .

    (1) On February 2, 2009 Mr. Gregus evaluated 3x oxygen sensors (serial numbers 71121263, 71121265, 71121266) returned by you in January 2009 . . . in an e-mail dated August 24, 2009 you indicated the sensors had never been used. From the serial numbers these sensors were manufactured in November 2007. The sensor packaging clearly indicates a 12 month warranty. Assuming a couple months on the shelf before purchase, I have to ask why would you allow the warranty to expire without using the sensors?

    (2) Your RB posting on 28th August 2009 indicates “I (you) received them (the sensors) back from AI (Analytical Industries) with a note saying that there was nothing wrong with the sensors”, which goes to both the objectivity and quality control issues.
    FYI – our Quality Assurance Program complies with European, Canadian and U.S. FDA standards and ISO 9001:2008 and is certified annually.

    Mr. Gregus performed an extensive examination of each oxygen sensor by serial number and documented the detail results on an 8½x11 form as required by our Quality Assurance Program. This form records test results (physical damage, output in air, stability, ability to calibrate and leaks), observations, additional tests performed and conclusions as to mode failure, cause and eligibility for warranty.

    In this case additional testing was performed. Each sensor’s performance and stability in air and 100% oxygen were documented, 8½x11 form, using a data acquisition system.

    Lastly, each sensor was retested under simulated diving conditions using our proprietary automated system that tests the sensor’s output in air (20.9%) and linearity at 100% oxygen and under 1.6 ATA, and, generates individual print outs (attached to the evaluation report) identifying the sensor by model, serial number, date, time tested, chamber pressure (PO2 psi), signal output (mV) and whether the sensor pass/failed (Result) within an error of +3%. I would point out that the test automated test procedure was developed from input solicited from rebreather manufacturers.

    Two of the three sensors passed all tests.

    (3) Does this sound like another comment in your RB posting on 28th August 2009 which says “It is incredible that a company would have such lousy quality control”? We are not perfect here at Analytical Industries but I can guarantee you we go several steps further than any competitor.

    (4) The report on the 3rd sensor indicates a leak was found in the area of sensing membrane. There are several possible causes, most of which can occur after the sensor leaves our control at the factory. That aside Mr. Gregus replaced this 3rd sensor at no charge as goodwill despite the fact the warranty period had expired.

    This latter point leads us to the real issue here . . . we test each sensor extensively before it is accepted into inventory . . . once a sensor leaves the factory we have no control over how it is handled . . . it appears that a percentage of divers believe these electrochemical oxygen sensors are as bullet proof as a battery.

    Unfortunately this is not the case. We are working on an “Information Package” in an attempt to explain the dos and don’ts along with the why.

    Lastly, I cannot tell you why your test results are so dramatically different than ours . . . but we are interested in trying to find why. I can tell you that we supply thousands of sensors to OEM rebreather manufacturers monthly and if our test equipment was faulty . . . we certainly would hear about it pretty fast.

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