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Thread: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

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    Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    I was building a DIY rebreather few years ago. We got some pool test with it but then we kinda lost interest. RBW thread here.

    I got interested in designing a sidemount rebreather. I like to dive sidemount and it would be nice to have an al80 DIL/bailout cylinder on one side and a rebreather on the other side.
    Or small twins on back for DIL/bailout and the rebreather sidemounted.
    Think about diving in some PADI center. Hire the regular single tank+jacket BC+regulators. Have the single tank as DIL/bailout and dive your sidemounted rebreather.

    After making some CAD sketches confirmed that you can fit a rebreather with an integrated 2L O2 sylinder in a size of al80.

    You can have one counterlung (exhale) or even twin counterlungs. The O2 tank valve is easily reachable. Cell, solenoid etc. may be located on top or in the middle section before scrubber.

    Here is one sketch with twin counterlungs and electronics on top (black piece). This is mostly done for sizing. I wanted to know what you can fit in an al80 size cylinder.
    I think the electronics should be in the middle section so the counterlungs would be as high up as possible. Corrugated hoses would route from the top to ADV/BOV, from ADV/BOV to behind the neck and back to top. If the top is easily reached the you can locate the manual O2 add button on the top. Otherwise you can have it at the end of a short hose and clipped to your shoulder D-ring.

    I have many new ideas for this like how to handle water traps etc. I'll update the CAD drawing when I have time for it.

    Is anyone else interested in this kind of sidemount rebreather with integrated O2 cylinder?

  2. #2
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    This seems pretty sleek, what is your assumtion of duration? CL's inside next too the O2 bottle, so the breathing hoses would come out from the top of the electronics pod? How would WOB be in your opinion?

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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Any Pictures?
    Chett. L

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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by plazma  View Original Post
    I was building a DIY rebreather few years ago. We got some pool test with it but then we kinda lost interest. RBW thread here.

    I got interested in designing a sidemount rebreather. I like to dive sidemount and it would be nice to have an al80 DIL/bailout cylinder on one side and a rebreather on the other side.
    Or small twins on back for DIL/bailout and the rebreather sidemounted.
    Think about diving in some PADI center. Hire the regular single tank+jacket BC+regulators. Have the single tank as DIL/bailout and dive your sidemounted rebreather.

    After making some CAD sketches confirmed that you can fit a rebreather with an integrated 2L O2 sylinder in a size of al80.

    You can have one counterlung (exhale) or even twin counterlungs. The O2 tank valve is easily reachable. Cell, solenoid etc. may be located on top or in the middle section before scrubber.

    Here is one sketch with twin counterlungs and electronics on top (black piece). This is mostly done for sizing. I wanted to know what you can fit in an al80 size cylinder.
    I think the electronics should be in the middle section so the counterlungs would be as high up as possible. Corrugated hoses would route from the top to ADV/BOV, from ADV/BOV to behind the neck and back to top. If the top is easily reached the you can locate the manual O2 add button on the top. Otherwise you can have it at the end of a short hose and clipped to your shoulder D-ring.

    I have many new ideas for this like how to handle water traps etc. I'll update the CAD drawing when I have time for it.

    Is anyone else interested in this kind of sidemount rebreather with integrated O2 cylinder?
    I built and dive two sidemounted rebreathers, that have roughly the size of an Al 80 , I also own a JOKI that have exactly the same size ( diameter 165 mm, high 650 mm ( 700mm with protection ) , with a global design very closed to your CAD project so you can be SURE thats its absolutely imposible to integrate a 2 liters tank inside such a RB.

    Anyhow I have been ( and am still ) intersted in a project with an integrated tank.
    After some tests, the bigest possible tank size that I found possible to deal with is 0.8 liters and the total diameter of the rebreather is then closest to 200 mm, so the project turned more into a bail out breather or a recreative RB, or perhaps for very narrrow cave ( pushing the RB in front of you all the time ).

    About the placement of the CL they must be in the middle part of the RN close to your lung.

    Having the 02 tank inside the sidemount solve many config prob but create difficult engeneering prob, and not sure thats worth the effort

    Hope thats help, good luck with your project, let us know.

    Marc
    Last edited by Marc T; 23rd August 2009 at 19:15.

  5. #5
    Just add ice & water plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma's Avatar
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    This seems pretty sleek, what is your assumtion of duration? CL's inside next too the O2 bottle, so the breathing hoses would come out from the top of the electronics pod? How would WOB be in your opinion?
    4h scrubber duration.
    Hoses come out at the top. A 90° connector is probably needed.
    WOB is up to hose diameter and restrictions. Hydrostaric imbalance should be negligible in horizontal position. In vertical position it's up to how high the counterlungs are and how up the unit is mounted. I have never dived a sidemounted unit so don't no better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chett.L
    Any Pictures?
    Only some CAD drawings, notes on paper and head full of ideas and images

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc T
    I built and dive two sidemounted rebreathers, that have roughly the size of an Al 80 , I also own a JOKI that have exactly the same size ( diameter 165 mm, high 650 mm ( 700mm with protection ) , with a global design very closed to your CAD project so you can be SURE thats its absolutely imposible to integrate a 2 liters tank inside such a Rebreather.

    Anyhow I have been ( and am still ) intersted in a project with an integrated tank.
    After some tests, the bigest possible tank size that I found possible to deal with is 0.8 liters and the total diameter of the rebreather is then closest to 200 mm, so the project turned more into a bail out breather or a recreative Rebreather, or perhaps for very narrrow cave ( pushing the Rebreather in front of you all the time ).

    About the placement of the CL they must be in the middle part of the RN close to your lung.

    Having the 02 tank inside the sidemount solve many config prob but create difficult engeneering prob, and not sure thats worth the effort

    Hope thats help, good luck with your project, let us know.

    Marc
    My al80 tanks are 184mm in diameter. I used 180mm pipe in the CAD drawings. The tank in the drawing is actual 2L size. The top half of the unit must have aluminun or SS pipe to make the wall as thin as possible. The image is not good anyway. The black electronics compartment should be on top of scrubber so the counterlungs are positioned closer to top.

    Anyway I have 180mm PCV and PC pipe. So I may some day build a quick'n'dirty unit to test if the WOB is ok.
    I also have 2L oxygen tanks, Ray hoses & DSV, P-ports & connectors etc.

  6. #6
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by plazma  View Original Post
    4h scrubber duration.
    Hoses come out at the top. A 90° connector is probably needed.
    WOB is up to hose diameter and restrictions. Hydrostaric imbalance should be negligible in horizontal position. In vertical position it's up to how high the counterlungs are and how up the unit is mounted.

    Only some CAD drawings, notes on paper and head full of ideas and images
    So if bailing too the syphon, my head invisions, moving from sidemount to a hugging in the front and center of the torso position? I see a basic drager type DSV. (Or should this also have a BOV?) Do you think, during the dive, that you would alternate too this in order too keep the reaction chamber and ppO2 in order? If so, would it be necessary to bring the unit front and center for this or could this portion be done in a side slung position? Would the electronic monitor be strapped to the unit instead of on the person too allow for removal and repositioning? and would there be a gas block attached in order to use other on/off board cylinders?

    Curious,
    Hunter
    Last edited by 19Hunter68; 2nd September 2009 at 03:53.

  7. #7
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    So if bailing too the syphon, my head invisions, moving from sidemount to a hugging in the front and center of the torso position? I see a basic drager type DSV. (Or should this also have a BOV?) Do you think, during the dive, that you would alternate too this in order too keep the reaction chamber and ppO2 in order? If so, would it be necessary to be able to bring the unit front and center for this or could this portion be done in a side slung position? Would the electronic monitor be strapped to the unit instead of on the person too allow for removal and repositioning? and would there be a gas block attached in order to use other on/off board cylinders?

    Curious,
    Hunter
    Here you go have a read at this,

    sump4.com/rebreather/d5_construction

  8. #8
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by mountain diver  View Original Post
    Here you go have a read at this,

    sump4.com/rebreather/d5_construction
    Very nice reading, seems like a very decent machine as a primary with some potential ideas for a BOB. Thank you.

    Cheers,
    Hunter

  9. #9
    Just add ice & water plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma is a name known to all plazma's Avatar
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    So if bailing to the syphon, my head invisions, moving from sidemount to a hugging in the front and center of the torso position? I see a basic drager type DSV. (Or should this also have a BOV?) Do you think, during the dive, that you would alternate too this in order too keep the reaction chamber and ppO2 in order? If so, would it be necessary to bring the unit front and center for this or could this portion be done in a side slung position? Would the electronic monitor be strapped to the unit instead of on the person too allow for removal and repositioning? and would there be a gas block attached in order to use other on/off board cylinders?

    Curious,
    Hunter
    It would be nice to have a BOV with integrated ADV. You could manually add diluent by pressing the ADV button.

    It should breath best in sidemount position when diving in a horizontal position. If you dive in a vertical position then the counterlung may be too low and you get the chipmunk effect. If you have to accent in a vertical position then you can move the top clip from the sidemount bungee to the shoulder D-ring to get the counterlung into a higher position. I'll make a CAD image to show the position when I have time (next weekend maybe).

  10. #10
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    Re: Sidemount rebreather called Syphon

    Here is a friend of mines design; I have seen this unit it is nice.

    http://www.smrebreathers.com/index.htm

    Erik

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