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Thread: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

  1. #21
    RBW Member MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ is a splendid one to behold MarkZ's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    I am not an expert on decompression injuries, but even if I were, you would be mad to take medical advice from someone you met on an internet site. Get the very best advice available, from someone with real technical diving experience. You have doubtless sunk a lot of money into your hobby over the years, and probably wouldn't think twice about getting on a plane for a dive holiday, so if you have to get on a plane to get looked at by a world-respected expert, my advice is that the money would be well spent. He's not going to tell you what to do: he's there to give you the information to enable you to make an informed choice. That will depend on whether diving is your passtime or your passion.

    Whatever you choose, all the best and get well soon.
    Cheers,
    Nicholas[/quote]



    I completely agree with your thoughts but for the record "Saturation" is both a technical diver and a top notch physician in the field being discussed. He is very understated as evidenced by the fact that I am tooting his horn rather them him doing it himself, and a hell of a nice guy. He would be worth the plane trip or at least a consult after sending him the complete medical file.

  2. #22
    Darlene Starr - DIY Diva Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    So specifically what would you have done different to ensure no issue on surface?

    On the OP input on the doctors recommendation to not dive again. I have not been bent but have had a buddy get bent in his shoulder upon surfacing from a dive. The amount of pain that I saw him scares the s@#t our of me and causes me to be conservative as I do not want to go thru the same or worst pain as he did.

    The problem I have with the whole issue of being conservative is "what is conservative enough"? Who really knows and what proof do they have? Seems we all have to take the risk with our body knowing that what works on one dive or with another diver may not work for us on any particular dive and we will not know until afterwards.

    I can't imagine you wanting to take the risk of going thru what you did already for the sake of another dive.

    John
    While you can never "ensure" no issues at the surface, the best place to start is before you ever go down, here are some specifics that I would have done different that you ask for:

    Would never consider using a backgass with an end of 185ft .... especially for a cold poor vis dive.. something like 18/45 or 15/55 makes wayyyy more sense

    Would never consider using a backgas with with a po2 of 1.53 at planned depth for any dive. again, something like 18/45 or 15/55 makes wayyyy more sense

    Would not have planned a dive in freezing cold water on "Nominal" setting ... at least a +2 or +3 (maybe higher) conservatism level is clearly indicated. (I do deep mix dives in 80 + degree water at +2)

    Would not have switched to air at 40m, with a po2 of 1.0, where's that doing any good for deco and driving offgassing gradient... The logistics of carrying a 3rd gas at 70m for 20min versus any benefit seldom justify that choice .... For deeper/longer dives, where a third gas is needed, that 3rd gas should be a leaner trimix than bottom gas.

    Would not consider using anything other than 100% O2 for final deco ... You always want the greatest possible gradient for the greatest amount of time ... given the xtreme conditions, this becomes even more salient

    Would not have used 5 meter stop increments when v-planner offers 3m stops .... This just works hand in hand with planning conservatively for extreme conditions


    I stand by my original statements, that bad gas choices and bad planning are the cause of the problem. ....

    Crimony! ... he never noticed in all the previous dives that the bottom timer and the Explorer didn't give the same max depth data! or know that they shouldn't? Where's the past post dive analysis been ....



    Darlene


    addit:

    Here's what it looks like with wayyy better choices, .... +3 conservatism, managable end, acceptable max po2 given the short bottom time, ... just not that much more run time for the added safety


    DIVE PLAN
    Surface interval = 5 day 0 hr 0 min.
    Elevation = 0ft
    Conservatism = + 3
    Dec to 200ft (4) Trimix 18/45 50ft/min descent.
    Dec to 230ft (4) Trimix 18/45 60ft/min descent.
    Level 230ft 15:30 (20) Trimix 18/45 1.43 ppO2, 90ft ead, 112ft end
    Asc to 150ft (22) Trimix 18/45 -30ft/min ascent.
    Stop at 150ft 0:20 (23) Trimix 18/45 1.00 ppO2, 53ft ead, 68ft end
    Stop at 140ft 1:00 (24) Trimix 18/45 0.94 ppO2, 48ft ead, 62ft end
    Stop at 130ft 1:00 (25) Trimix 18/45 0.89 ppO2, 43ft ead, 57ft end
    Stop at 120ft 1:00 (26) Trimix 18/45 0.83 ppO2, 39ft ead, 51ft end
    Stop at 110ft 1:00 (27) Trimix 18/45 0.78 ppO2, 34ft ead, 46ft end
    Stop at 100ft 2:00 (29) Trimix 18/45 0.72 ppO2, 29ft ead, 40ft end
    Stop at 90ft 2:00 (31) Trimix 18/45 0.67 ppO2, 25ft ead, 35ft end
    Stop at 80ft 2:00 (33) Trimix 18/45 0.62 ppO2, 20ft ead, 29ft end
    Stop at 70ft 4:00 (37) Nitrox 50 1.56 ppO2, 32ft ead
    Stop at 50ft 3:40 (41) Nitrox 50 1.26 ppO2, 20ft ead
    Stop at 40ft 4:00 (45) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 13ft ead
    Stop at 30ft 6:00 (51) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 7ft ead
    Stop at 20ft 7:00 (58) Oxygen 1.60 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Stop at 10ft 13:00 (71) Oxygen 1.30 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Surface (71) Oxygen -30ft/min ascent.
    Off gassing starts at 169.9ft
    OTU's this dive: 95
    CNS Total: 48.0%
    148.0 cu ft Trimix 18/45
    25.6 cu ft Nitrox 50
    16.8 cu ft Oxygen
    190.4 cu ft TOTAL

    DIVE PLAN COMPLETE
    Last edited by Scuba_Vixen; 13th June 2009 at 05:10.

  3. #23
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    As you weigh the risk of diving again, I think it is only fair to have an honest talk with your wife/family. One of my other hobbies is mixed martial arts (cagefighting). I'm 29, unmarried with no dependents, so I can do whatever I want without anyone's permission. After the last time, my parents said, " no more calls from the ER ok?" I decided that is a reasonable request considering my history and I have scaled back. Think hard about what is important, what is possible and what is practical. Whatever you decide, I hope you will be happy and healthy.

    Tyler

  4. #24
    RBW Member jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Vixen  View Original Post
    While you can never "ensure" no issues at the surface, the best place to start is before you ever go down, here are some specifics that I would have done different that you ask for:

    Darlene

    Darlene

    Thanks that is what I was looking for. Its always nice to see what other do and their thoughts for my own learning. Never know when I might need to modify something based upon what others are doing.

    John

  5. #25
    Darlene Starr - DIY Diva Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    Darlene

    Thanks that is what I was looking for. Its always nice to see what other do and their thoughts for my own learning. Never know when I might need to modify something based upon what others are doing.

    John

    The diveplan was posted in the original thread, I just plugged in the given info and ran it with different conservatisms (that wasn't given) to determine that it was set to "nominal".

    Given the 1.53 po2, the 185' end, the nominal conservatism setting, the freezing cold water with slush at the surface, this was a clusterfu*ck with "disaster" stamped on it before they ever left the dock.

    Who teaches shit like this anyway?



    Darlene

  6. #26
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Kinda guess this has gone toataly off thread.

    The diveplan you have made up is nothing like my plan.
    Your comments show your inexperiance and a inabilty to read whats in front of you .
    AND take a chill pill !!

    I posted my experiances to help others.. not to provide you with a soap box.

    Back to thread

    Ive had a few knowledgeable pms..
    For my family ..
    no more diving for me .

    Dean
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  7. #27
    Darlene Starr - DIY Diva Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen has a brilliant future Scuba_Vixen's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    The dive plan I posted is the same depth and bottom time as yours, just done with smarter gas choices and a reasonable level of conservatism, to show that it isn't that much longer in run time, to gain a cleaner deco and almost no narcosis comparatively speaking.

    If you mean that it isn't at all like yours, in that it isn't nearly as likely to get you bent, even if followed perfectly, then I guess you're right.



    Taking that chill pill now


    Darlene

  8. #28
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    dean,

    i wish you may happy years with your family.

    peace,
    Marv

    fidelis Ad Mortem

  9. #29
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Dean,

    Good luck with your family. I hope you come to terms with not diving. I understand your loss, but think you have made a wise decision in the long run. I'm sure your wife and child will appreciate it.

    Best regards,
    Randy

  10. #30
    Mark Hilley firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver is just really nice firemandiver's Avatar
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    Re: Why Cant I Dive !! .. ?

    Dean,

    I'm just returning from a series of courses and one of them was Med Dive. I had no idea how dangerous a mild DCS hit can be, much less one like yours. It really makes you rethink everything you've done in diving. I can't tell you how many times I've been on the ragged edge, and I don't even go to the depths you do.

    I love spearfishing. Too many times I've gone deep (175- 200 ft) to get a shot on a fish, then rocketed up to save gas while stringing the fish, and then bounced back to get to where the fish are. I've also blown my bottom time and come up on fumes with reckless abandon. After attending the recent class, I realize that it's a miracle I haven't had a hit. I plan on adding a good healty dose of caution to my dives from now on. If I can't get it in recreational limts, or don't have the time/gas, I don't need it. Plain and simple.

    I'm sure it's a terrible pill to swallow to quit after so many years, but for me it'd be a no brainer. As we've discussed in our emails, my wife and daughter are the most important thing in my life. I know your's are too. I think the risk far outweighs the benefit. That precious little girl needs her Daddy to be here for the long haul. I think you made the only logical decision.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Bless you , brother.

    Mark.
    Last edited by firemandiver; 22nd June 2009 at 01:59.

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