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Thread: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

  1. #1
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    OK I have an idea.


    We apparently want a "real world test" on a scrubber.


    Are we willing to pay for it?


    Id be willing to chip in £100 so is any one else interested.


    My suggestion for the test would be:


    Meg Scrubber (because there are a lot of Meg divers on RBW)

    Inspo Scrubber (because there are a lot of inspo divers full stop)

    20c water (because we have data on cold water so lets see the other end of the scale for once.


    25 SAC (because 20-25 is a high side average working sac)

    Id need advice on C02 production? What is a normal" C02 production rate for a 25 SAC diver?


    So lets have your ideas

    Please bear in mind we cant afford to test every scrubber under every situation so please try and keep it all rational. We have the extreem guidline of 4c 40RMV 40m 1.6lpm Co2. Lets see where the other end of the scale is.

    Once we have nailed down the test criteria we can present it to Paul and find out how much he will charge us to do the test. Then we can set up a fund to fund it.


    ATB

    Mark

  2. #2
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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Mark,

    Good idea and I think over time you will see this kind of trend being discussed.

    My suggestion how ever is as follows...

    Do the testing accross a range of temps... (I am suggesting this since I have already seen some data like this and you might be surprised with the results/or not)

    5c - 10c - 15c- 20c- 25c.

    Personally I think the rest should match the standard tests. 40RMV 40m 1.6lpm Co2

    Units we can debate about the list but unless you do a broad enough range of units the value is minimal.

    Dive Safe..

    Mark

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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by diverklondike  View Original Post

    5c - 10c - 15c- 20c- 25c.

    Personally I think the rest should match the standard tests. 40RMV 40m 1.6lpm Co2
    I go with more like Chasey said, a high but normal SAC rate of 20-25.

    is 40 RMV equivalent to 40SAC?

    across a range of temps, is good as we have a range of divers across the world and whats good for UK isn't necessarily for Aus or southern US.

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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Good idea, and if we test each scrubber equally we can get a fair comparison.

    A realistic CO2 production would be about 1l/min.

    If possible I'd like to see a three point result for each scrubber, normal, high and pessamistic. For example

    20l - 0.8l co2 - 15' 50m - This would be how it would behave on a typical dive.

    25l - 1l co2 - 8' 80m - This would be higher workload that often occrurs on some dives.

    40l - 1.3l co2 - 4' 120m - This would be a hard to reach maximum.

    At the moment we get a random figure thrown in, which does not reflect our real usage. Most divers then guess their own figure without any real understanding of whether this is a relaistic figure.

    With a set of figures ppl. can make a more informed choice on where they choose to draw the line.

  5. #5
    RBW Member jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk has a reputation beyond repute jkaterenchuk's Avatar
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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    One consideration is to not only have a single set of parameters during a dive but rather simulate some average dive profiles. Maybe utilize the V-Planner dive database to analyse it and determine the several common average dive profiles and then run each scrubber thru these average dive profile and have some way to measure the remaining capacity of the scrubber.

    Anyway, I would be willing to consider dedicating a significant portion of my personal time to run the tests and analyze the data should we find someone to volunteer the testing equipment, the rebreathers, the scrubbers and the sorb.

    John

  6. #6
    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Bit of a backwards suggestion wrt CO2... before spending out testing scrubbers is there anyway of testing actual divers (as opposed to Naval/Commie divers) and get a handle on the real value of CO2 we put out.

    We kind of need the CO2 monitors that are promised to appear and use them as data-loggers first though....

    I can volunteer my 6ft+ 100kilo frame to provide copious amounts of CO2 :) I know I use almost double the O2 flow rate my buddy does on his KISS so QED there must be a considerable range of CO2 production.

    IMO this notional 1.6lpm thats banded about can't possible be right for the couch potato divers I see on most boats! (me included)

    Lastly- whats the test for, not comparisons clearly as you'd need to test every unit, so what question are you trying to answer?

    FWIW I would like to know how the CO2 scrubbing capacity of X unit is effected by extended intervals between dives- can I do 1 dive Saturday, then another on Sunday then use the remaining time up on the following Saturday- can I leave it two weeks, what about three?

    I'm of the opinion that the second biggest unknown in RB diving after cell life is the gulf between manufacturers reccomended scrubber usage and what divers actually do! (Bit beyond the scope of Chasey's question but thought I'd hang it out there anyway :))

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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post


    I'm of the opinion that the second biggest unknown in RB diving after cell life is the gulf between manufacturers reccomended scrubber usage and what divers actually do! (Bit beyond the scope of Chasey's question but thought I'd hang it out there anyway :))
    A million euro question. Maybe a poll of some sort.

  8. #8
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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    We kind of need the CO2 monitors that are promised to appear and use them as data-loggers first though....
    Grief yes!

    Sorry but instrumentation physics is bread-and-butter here and one of the things I have on my DEW radar is the possibility of a CO2 monitor add-on for the Sentinel. If they come out with that I will forgive the box all its foibles. I'd so much like a plot showing CO2 ppm and see how it changes as the scrubber gets used up and how it changes again as I ascend and the mass-flow drops.

    Once I see that I will start to understand.

    I'll pay considerably more than Mark's hundred quid. :D

  9. #9
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Once we have nailed down the test criteria we can present it to Paul and find out how much he will charge us to do the test. Then we can set up a fund to fund it.
    So we are going to pay a rebreather mfn to test his competitors products and expect objective results?
    Sorry but if I were to pay someone to do the testing it won't be someone with a vested interest in the results. HSE maybe???
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: Tell me what scrubber test you really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    So we are going to pay a rebreather mfn to test his competitors products and expect objective results?
    Sorry but if I were to pay someone to do the testing it won't be someone with a vested interest in the results. HSE maybe???

    Paul is someone I would trust results from without question, anyone who has spent any time with paul would probably feel the same... He now has the experience in testing and I strongly doubt he would fudge any results.. He has had the others numbers for a while and knows what he had to do to improve his product... I would trust his numbers over any manufacturer out there, I would also trust it over somene like the HSE since we have seen inconsistencies in tests that they have run..



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