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Thread: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

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    Hans C. Kaspersetz luxrok has a spectacular aura about luxrok has a spectacular aura about luxrok has a spectacular aura about luxrok has a spectacular aura about luxrok has a spectacular aura about luxrok's Avatar
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    Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    I wrote a story about a recent cave dive at The Pit that included a bail out at 280ft. Luckily, it was a planned exercise and not an unexpected event. If you want to read about my almost comical experience, shoot on over to the blog to check it out.

    Hans

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Great article. Thanks Hans.

    Tyler

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Good article.

    WRT keeping on schedule, OC trimix should be running a set of schedules, allowing for aborted dive, short, long and maximum schedules. This provides all the needed flexibility in an emergency. Running a single schedule is not great.

    This is to distinguish the need for time to solve problems versus making an expeditious exit. Since you experienced issues, it is astounding that the OC diver's schedules did not allow flexibility in running schedules. Certainly, a diver targets a nominal run time for a dive, however, not carrying contingency schedules is a fundamental training issue. Recommending that someone executes faster when encountering problems is not constructive since one cannot predict how long problem solving can take, especially in an emergency.

    It is also quite okay to encourage better skills integration for enhanced performance, however, not because it is an inconvenience for the OC diver.

    On deploying and stowing regulators, especially on the fly, an added option is to set hose lengths such that the regs drape around the neck to staggered positions. This can allow maintaining several regulators in a deployed condition, allowing more time and options for stowage.

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Mike

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Quote Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz  View Original Post
    Good article.

    WRT keeping on schedule, OC trimix should be running a set of schedules, allowing for aborted dive, short, long and maximum schedules. This provides all the needed flexibility in an emergency. Running a single schedule is not great.
    Thank you! I write the articles for people to learn from and enjoy as entertainment.

    The diver had the appropriate schedules. I am not sure where you read that we didn't have the schedules. Seems like you made a bit of an assumption to the negative. Our desire was to stay on the nominal schedule. As you might imagine, the switch to the next schedule at depth can add an unnecessary amount of decompression and gas usage. Every minute at that depth translates into about 5 minutes of deco. A switch to the next schedule brings a 30 minute penalty, something neither of us wanted to be obliged too. A close reading of the article reveals that my one minute to make the switch was built in to our nominal schedules. We left the switch on schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz  View Original Post
    This is to distinguish the need for time to solve problems versus making an expeditious exit. Since you experienced issues, it is astounding that the OC diver's schedules did not allow flexibility in running schedules. Certainly, a diver targets a nominal run time for a dive, however, not carrying contingency schedules is a fundamental training issue. Recommending that someone executes faster when encountering problems is not constructive since one cannot predict how long problem solving can take, especially in an emergency.
    See above.

    Quote Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz  View Original Post
    It is also quite okay to encourage better skills integration for enhanced performance, however, not because it is an inconvenience for the OC diver.
    I see his recommendation in a different light. Optimally, I would like to be able to be swimming towards the exit while making the switch. That ability would cut at least 1 minute at depth and 5 minutes off of deco saving a little less then 18cuft of gas. Additionally, it would put me closer to the exit if there were another emergency, which out of respect to Murphy isn't completely unlikely. I can't remember a time when only one thing went wrong when things started to go really wrong. I think Santiago's critic is correct in that I need to work towards the ability to swim and make this switch at depth. I can do it in 100ft, why not in 280ft? That is a valid question and needs to be figured into bail out planning and needs to be trained further to develop better muscle memory. I don't think either of my CCR instructors would have let me walk without being able to do that skill while making an exit. I shouldn't accept it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz  View Original Post
    On deploying and stowing regulators, especially on the fly, an added option is to set hose lengths such that the regs drape around the neck to staggered positions. This can allow maintaining several regulators in a deployed condition, allowing more time and options for stowage.
    Not a bad recommendation. Though going back onto the loop and doing 2.5 hours of deco this way wouldn't have been very comfortable. Again, this is a training and equipment issue and was only identified because I took the time to actually try it out. It is interesting that the problems we have in the shallows are magnified under the time pressue that comes with being deep.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my article and provide feedback! Your ideas help me to better flush out my ideas. Keep em coming!

    Hans

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Good stuff Hans. When can we expect to see you back out on the boat doing some real diving?? ;)

    -b

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Quote Originally Posted by brandonmc  View Original Post
    Good stuff Hans. When can we expect to see you back out on the boat doing some real diving?? ;)

    -b
    I think next weekend. I have to look at the Indy's schedule. But I am planning to dive back in. Ha ha ha!! Aren't I funny.

    Hans

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Quote Originally Posted by luxrok  View Original Post
    I think next weekend. I have to look at the Indy's schedule. But I am planning to dive back in. Ha ha ha!! Aren't I funny.

    Hans
    yo Hans

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Great write up Hans

    As with so many CCR skills the actual doing of the skil in a high stress situation puts a totaly different slant on things.

    Like you Id be concerned about going off loop and on to OC as I have had a few incidents where the first breath was water. Id also be very concerned about flooding the CCR in haste which I have done by accident practicing bailouts in "easy" situations. I have sat there loop in one hand, reg in the other mentally preparing my self for the switch and any possible issues.


    For me the answer was to fit a BOV

    Now i practice a switch to OC on every dive and ill often do a few OC bailout breaths on a dive where things are less than perfect.

    Diving Nahoch on the last day of our Mexico trip i had a heavy breathing resistance on the CCR. either a CL had come lose or I had some water in the scrubber that was clumping the lime. We were 56mins in when it happened. Nahoch is very shallow but i am new enough to cave diving to be nervous that far in.

    I must have done a dozen or more quick spit and breath practice bailouts on that exit, and very comforting it was too.

    ATB

    Mark

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    Re: Bailing out at 280ft in The Pit

    Mark -- is this the J.J. valve that gives a mouth of water? I was wondering if you got the "first breath being a mouthful of water" thing sorted out on the J.J.

    Pm sent, and thanks.

    John

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