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Thread: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

  1. #1
    RBW Member Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge's Avatar
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    Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    I am considering to purchase a new KISS Classic and just recently found out that the original stainless braided MAV Swagelock type hoses were replaced with the yellow Miflex. After a brief conversation with KISS sales, I was informed that they no longer supply units with the braided hoses and yellow Miflex are standard. Reasons being: they are O2 compatible, CE approved, and high vis for safety reasons. KISS do not offer options to satisfy customer requests.

    Issues:
    1. Other CE rebreathers use plain rubber hoses for O2
    2. Why have CE hoses on a non-CE rebreather
    3. Yellow hoses are stupid. Why ruin a perfectly good clean technical rebreather design with this recreational crap?
    4. I don't buy the safety argument. The yellow hose makes it easy for my dive buddies to find the MAV? Why? What if I'm toxing out? No thanks.
    I was told that I was the only one to complain about this issue. Personally, I find that hard to believe, at least maybe I am the first to complain about it, but certainly not the only one. Anyone else see issues with this? Am I being unreasonable?

    As a good paying customer I would appreciate some options. First, I would like an option to put the stainless braided hose back on the unit. If that's not possible (not sure why that would be), then at least have an option for a black Miflex, just so that I don't feel like an idiot.

    Thanks,
    Serge
    Last edited by Serge; 20th March 2009 at 18:38.

  2. #2
    Rob Clemes iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl's Avatar
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    I must admit, I like the braided hoses on my Sport, and if I were to get a Classic (a distinct possibility), I would want it with the stainless hoses. I can't believe this is no longer offered as an option.

  3. #3
    RBW Member Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge's Avatar
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Quote Originally Posted by iratnl  View Original Post
    I must admit, I like the braided hoses on my Sport, and if I were to get a Classic (a distinct possibility), I would want it with the stainless hoses. I can't believe this is no longer offered as an option.
    You know, the stainless hose is what I really admired about the KISS. It just looked solid and bullet-proof! It was like a KISS trademark. Like the 7-slotted grill on a Jeep. I don't know why would anyone want to change that. If the manufacturing cost was an issue, that's no problem, I would gladly pay a couple of bucks more for a stainless system.

    Please bring it back, or at least offer it is an an optional upgrade!

    Besides, Chuck Norris would never go for a yellow Miflex.

  4. #4
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Trust me- you want the Miflex hoses.

    If you don't like the yellow just order some black ones after you get the unit from Miflex direct and swap them out or put covers over them but you WANT the Miflex hoses over the stainless.

    Yes- the stainless lines will take tank pressure so possibly one tiny failure point less... but oh- so much friggin hassle, horrible to route, cut your fingers/other kit/suit to shreds, have crappy leaky fittings and are far less flexible and harder to access if they get twisted.

    The Miflex lines are a joy to use, tough but if they need replacing you can fit stock hoses (not the case with the SS lines), easy to route, easy to deal with, don't stuff up the rest of your kit and much easier to bend into a new position for access if you need to.

    Miflex hoses are good stuff, they aren't "recreational crap" as you suggest, in fact take a look at a few other rebreather manufacturers- several are now using Miflex (albeit in black) on their units.

    I have no affiliation to miflex, just a satisfied customer and happy to reccomend them.

  5. #5
    RBW Member S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc is a jewel in the rough S. Marc's Avatar
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge  View Original Post
    I am considering to purchase a new KISS Classic and just recently found out that the original stainless braided MAV Swagelock type hoses were replaced with the yellow Miflex. After a brief conversation with KISS sales, I was informed that they no longer supply units with the braided hoses and yellow Miflex are standard. Reasons being: they are O2 compatible, CE approved, and high vis for safety reasons. KISS do not offer options to satisfy customer requests.

    Issues:
    1. Other CE rebreathers use plain rubber hoses for O2
    2. Why have CE hoses on a non-CE rebreather
    3. Yellow hoses are stupid. Why ruin a perfectly good clean technical rebreather design with this recreational crap?
    4. I don't buy the safety argument. The yellow hose makes it easy for my dive buddies to find the MAV? Why? What if I'm toxing out? No thanks.
    I was told that I was the only one to complain about this issue. Personally, I find that hard to believe, at least maybe I am the first to complain about it, but certainly not the only one. Anyone else see issues with this? Am I being unreasonable?

    As a good paying customer I would appreciate some options. First, I would like an option to put the stainless braided hose back on the unit. If that's not possible (not sure why that would be), then at least have an option for a black Miflex, just so that I don't feel like an idiot.

    Thanks,
    Serge
    Do I have an offer for you.

    My wife has CK 319. It has very few dives on it (probably less than 30) we bought it second hand.

    We have the stainless steel hoses with her MAV.

    Buy a CK with Miflex hoses, and we can exchange the bits.

    I doubt my wife would mind the Yellow Miflex.

    Marc

  6. #6
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Quote Originally Posted by S. Marc  View Original Post
    Do I have an offer for you.

    My wife has CK 319. It has very few dives on it (probably less than 30) we bought it second hand.

    We have the stainless steel hoses with her MAV.

    Buy a CK with Miflex hoses, and we can exchange the bits.

    I doubt my wife would mind the Yellow Miflex.

    Marc
    You know, I may just take you up on that offer! But in general, I still think it should be optional. Why can't I get a brand new stainless hose?

  7. #7
    Rob Clemes iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl will become famous soon enough iratnl's Avatar
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    have crappy leaky fittings and are far less flexible and harder to access if they get twisted.

    Mine have never leaked, and it's the lack of flexibility that I like. Once set up and routed correctly, the MAV stays where it's put; I can just drop my hand onto it without looking.

    If it ain't broke, don't fix it !

  8. #8
    RBW Member Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge is a splendid one to behold Serge's Avatar
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    Trust me- you want the Miflex hoses.

    If you don't like the yellow just order some black ones after you get the unit from Miflex direct and swap them out or put covers over them but you WANT the Miflex hoses over the stainless.

    Yes- the stainless lines will take tank pressure so possibly one tiny failure point less... but oh- so much friggin hassle, horrible to route, cut your fingers/other kit/suit to shreds, have crappy leaky fittings and are far less flexible and harder to access if they get twisted.

    The Miflex lines are a joy to use, tough but if they need replacing you can fit stock hoses (not the case with the SS lines), easy to route, easy to deal with, don't stuff up the rest of your kit and much easier to bend into a new position for access if you need to.

    Miflex hoses are good stuff, they aren't "recreational crap" as you suggest, in fact take a look at a few other rebreather manufacturers- several are now using Miflex (albeit in black) on their units.

    I have no affiliation to miflex, just a satisfied customer and happy to reccomend them.
    Ben, thanks for sharing your preference. No doubt Miflex is an excellent product. But why force it?

    Also, the "recreational crap" I was referring to was not Miflex, but the fact that it's high-vis yellow. What's next? A snorkel?

  9. #9
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    Quote Originally Posted by iratnl  View Original Post
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it !
    That's what I say!

  10. #10
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    Re: Yellow Miflex Hoses on Kiss MAV

    A while ago when Jetsam announced they were doing this my first thought was cost saving on materials. It's part of the continued cheapening of the KISS. I am yet to be convinced of any other benefit. OK, Miflex isn't cheap but they are a lot cheaper than Swagelok.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge  View Original Post
    Why have CE hoses on a non-CE rebreather
    It makes the change easier to justify and people are daft enough to believe it. Swagelok's hoses are rated for O2 use and fail pressure is a hell of a lot higher than Miflex. I'd guess by a factor of 10.

    Yellow hoses are stupid. Why ruin a perfectly good clean technical rebreather design with this recreational crap?
    Nobody wants yellow = cheap.

    I don't buy the safety argument. The yellow hose makes it easy for my dive buddies to find the MAV? Why? What if I'm toxing out? No thanks.
    Absolutely. When I dive with anyone else the only thing I tell them when they ask what to do in an emergency is turn the BOV to OC. That's all they need to know for about 99% of dives.


    I was told that I was the only one to complain about this issue. Personally, I find that hard to believe, at least maybe I am the first to complain about it, but certainly not the only one. Anyone else see issues with this? Am I being unreasonable?
    There have been tons of threads on here with owners converting to Miflex hoses. I really do not get it why anyone would want to trade the benefits of Swagelok hoses just so that the hoses sit better on the rig. When I sold my KISS one of many reasons I replaced it with a Mk15 was that all the plumbing was stainless. Scuba hoses... blown o-rings, no tolerance to IP creep...

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