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Thread: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

  1. #1
    Back on Bubbles - Cherio! Craig69 is an unknown quantity at this point Craig69's Avatar
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    Question Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    I bought some 02 cells from the store about 8 months ago and have been using them for 6 in a KISS classic, although I have done only a few (combined total of 10 hours) shallow dives. However I am having a few issues with them and want to know if its normal - these are only the second set of cells I have bought for the unit.

    I am using two of the new cells and one of the original telydene ones since I did not want to change all three at the same time.

    When I calibrate all three cells prior to diving they all read the same and for the first dive read the same for the duration of the dive. However, come the second dive the new cells read 0.1 lower than the old cell, i.e. I get something like 1.20, 1.2, 1.3 at 20m, but the deeper I go the greater the difference gets. I have looked at the head post dive and none of the cells are wet. I have done o2 flushes at 6m and the new cells don't get above 1.2, on the first dive they do. As a final test this weeked I dried my head out on sunday and did an o2 calibration test and got the following figures 0.64, 0.77, 0.98. tThe 0.98 reading comes from the old cell and is what I calibrated it at in 02 before saturdays diving.

    For reference the original cells were two years old and I only started to replace them because I thought they needed doing, there were no signs of deterioration.

    I think the new cells are screwed, or am I missing something?


    As an aside, I have only just got back access to RBW (something was blocking it on my work PC) and have noticed the store has gone. I presume I have no recourse for these cells and will have to absorb the cost of a new set.

    Thanks for the help and apologies if any of this has been covered at great length in the archives,

    Craig.

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    If you have a shufty in the archives there are a lot of posts about AI/RBW store cells and their reliability.

    I had the same problem in my CK with their cells. I'd chuck them and buy Teledynes. Unfortunately the RBW Store is dead now so I don't know how you stand. I got mine replaced while they were still running but the replacements were just as bad. They were very fast reacting cells, faster than Teledynes i thought, but just didn't have longevity.

    Cheers,

    Stuart

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    Brent - Narked at 90
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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    You'll be surprised to know that the Ai cells we have encountered have exhibited some changeable behaviour.
    When we first bought into the Ai cells, we got a fairly sizeable batch. Of those, >40% failed prematurely (<3months). Failures were directly attributable to faulty manufacture. The cell face seals were poor and led to leaking.
    The majority of the remainder failed by 12 months. Some of those cells were never used and were dead straight out of the bag.
    We asked customers to return the cells we sold in exchange for brand new teledynes, used or not.
    Very few are still functioning today.
    Here is what we found in respect to the cells that did not fail;
    Control cells were kept unused in a diving head alongside Teledynes (APD sourced).
    The cells performed well at first with a very fast response time.
    After 18 months of continuous hyperbaric exposure under real diving conditions (not connected to instrumentation) the cells are now very slow in response but still linear to 2bar.
    This change has been gradual.

    The moral of the story? High failure rates, experienced in batches with almost identical failure types. Failures did not depend upon pressure or use. Those cells that do not fail will be comparable to other manufacturers, but behaviour is changeable.

    Since the manufacture of the cells we have been long term testing, Aii have started testing their cells under hyperbaric conditions. Previously, no testing above atmospheric was carried out.
    I can't find the dive show post that details the exact tests that are carried out, but from memory the testing that is carried out now is to pressurise the cells to 5 bar in air and print out the mV results on a sticker that is packaged with the product.

    5 bar of air = ??PO2
    Diving setpoint is usually ??PO2
    Current limitation is usually tested at ?? PO2

    Our opinion? should be 10 bar in air or 2 bar of O2.

    Brent

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    Quote Originally Posted by divetheworld  View Original Post
    You'll be surprised to know that the Ai cells we have encountered have exhibited some changeable behaviour.
    When we first bought into the Ai cells, we got a fairly sizeable batch. Of those, >40% failed prematurely (<3months). Failures were directly attributable to faulty manufacture. The cell face seals were poor and led to leaking.
    The majority of the remainder failed by 12 months. Some of those cells were never used and were dead straight out of the bag..

    Brent.
    Brent

    Since it does not appear that the manufacturer of the bad cells has issued a recall might you be able to provide a date code range for the cell you had that were bad such that those of us that might still have some of the sell is reserve could take some action to proactively contact the manufacturer?

    John

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    hello john the recal was made by diverrite expess and rbw, and we changed the cells we had sold, it came down to batch numbers. i cant remember what the batch number were now but im sure it will be in the arcives some where as it was an ongoing problem.
    the scale of the problem became aparrent after our testing and talks with Aii
    as we were finding 40% failing, aii brought the 2nd cell checker we made.
    kind regards john routley

    Quote Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk  View Original Post
    Brent

    Since it does not appear that the manufacturer of the bad cells has issued a recall might you be able to provide a date code range for the cell you had that were bad such that those of us that might still have some of the sell is reserve could take some action to proactively contact the manufacturer?

    John
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    Its about learning to dance in the rain..

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    RBW Store did a recall in November/December 07 if that helps. The replacemenst were just as dodgy.

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    Back on Bubbles - Cherio! Craig69 is an unknown quantity at this point Craig69's Avatar
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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    Thanks guys.

    I'm looking into what, if any refund, I could get but I'll be replacing the cells with Teledyne ones. Fortunatley I kept all three 'old' cells so I can continue to use them in the very short term.

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig69  View Original Post
    Thanks guys.

    I'm looking into what, if any refund, I could get

    Steps for obtaining a refund:

    (1): Buy a slingshot.

    (2): Find where Barry is hiding these days.

    (3): Shoot the cells towards that spot using the slingshot.

    (4): Wait for a refund in the form of a roll of coins by return-slingshot.


    Really.... just toss them out and buy new cells. It's water under the bridge. Cells are consumables. Those ones were bad.


    Dave

    .

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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    When I purchased Rebreathworld.com, the Rebreatherworld store was already closed and not part of the purchase deal. This I am thankful for, because in my investigations into the store, it seemed to have way to many shady characters, poor business deals, and terrible financial planning.

    The new Rebreatherworld.com will not be having a rebreatherworld store, I feel it takes money away from our local dive facilities and retailers.

    If RBW does have a store, it will only contain promotional RBW material such as t-shirts, hats, etc…

  10. #10
    Brent - Narked at 90
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    Re: Issues wth Rebreatherworld Store 02 cells

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt Bowen  View Original Post
    When I purchased Rebreathworld.com, the Rebreatherworld store was already closed and not part of the purchase deal. This I am thankful for, because in my investigations into the store, it seemed to have way to many shady characters, poor business deals, and terrible financial planning.

    The new Rebreatherworld.com will not be having a rebreatherworld store, I feel it takes money away from our local dive facilities and retailers.

    If RBW does have a store, it will only contain promotional RBW material such as t-shirts, hats, etc…
    Damn, you are good!!


    Brent
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