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Thread: Thinking about a CCR

  1. #1
    RBW Member ChrisCrash is an unknown quantity at this point ChrisCrash's Avatar
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    Thinking about a CCR

    Hello
    I am thinking about going to a ccr in the next couple years. I am still new but not dumb I am just wondering the differnce from a meg and a classic kiss they both seem like very good units.I would like too get something one day that will grow one me maybe one day 180 170 feet dives but that could be me dreaming
    Thanks for the help
    P.S sorry for spelling I am on my blackberry in bed lol
    Last edited by ChrisCrash; 29th September 2008 at 06:56.

  2. #2
    Yellow Box Of Delight Humuhumu is an unknown quantity at this point Humuhumu's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Hi,

    a KISS is a mCCR, you pilot the unit manualy (more or less and you can reach the depth you're dreaming of. A Megalodon is an eCCR, the electronic will pilot and you enjoy the dive, you pilot manualy only if you have a problem (this never happens . It's a very personal choice to rely on electronic to inject the O2 or not, but you must know that in both cases (KISS or Meg) you rely on the PpO2 displays and so on the 3 O2 sensors.

    Personaly, I used to dive with a modified Dolphin and now I have an InspirationVision: I will never go back, what a great unit ! The Meg is a very nice unit, I know a diver in my club having one and he is very satisfied. The Meg has no on board decompression it's like an Inspiration Classic (it will very probably have in a couple of monthes with Shearwater Research, ask them to know what's cooking) and does not go automaticaly on a secondary controler if the first one is out of order, in this case, you will have to pilot manualy, with only the secondary display, a little like a mCCR. The Inspiration Vision has on board decompression (a complete computer) and offers a complete secondary injection system. That's a choice, both solutions work and you will have to decide what is the best solution for you. Anther point to consider is the CE certification if you need it: the Inspiration is certified, the Meg will be and a KISS is impossible to certifie (please no discussions about SUBMATIX, please, please, please). So I hope this helps, feel free to ask specific information, if I can help, I will do.

    Cheers

    Humuhumu

  3. #3
    New Member vshearer is an unknown quantity at this point vshearer's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCrash  View Original Post
    Hello
    I am thinking about going to a ccr in the next couple years. I am still new but not dumb I am just wondering the differnce from a meg and a classic kiss they both seem like very good units.I would like too get something one day that will grow one me maybe one day 180 170 feet dives but that could be me dreaming
    Thanks for the help
    P.S sorry for spelling I am on my blackberry in bed lol
    Hi Chris,

    Good to see you are still above ground. Spelling and grammar the same. Say Hi to your Dad. All I have to add is if you are going into a CCR your Dad needs to take out a big policy, best investment he could ever make. :)

    It is a small world after all.

    Vance

  4. #4

    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCrash  View Original Post
    Hello
    I am thinking about going to a ccr in the next couple years. I am still new but not dumb I am just wondering the differnce from a meg and a classic kiss they both seem like very good units.I would like too get something one day that will grow one me maybe one day 180 170 feet dives but that could be me dreaming
    Thanks for the help
    P.S sorry for spelling I am on my blackberry in bed lol
    Hi,

    First of all you should read a couple of web sites to get info about the main's different kinds of rebreathers scr, pscr,mccr, eccr .
    this only after this that you will be able to think properly about rebreathers.
    asking the difference between the meg and the classic kiss shows that you miss information .
    regards
    jean mi

  5. #5
    Moderator ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami has much to be proud of ScubaDadMiami's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Definitely make sure to spend adequate time doing some research to find the rebreather that will be the best fit for you before going out and purchasing one.

  6. #6
    Shearwater Copis Diver Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Correction: The meg comes in an eCCR and an mCCR version, The standard Apex and The Copis.

    I'd also like to point out that if you dive any rebreather as if it "will pilot and you enjoy the dive", you are begging to end up in darwin's genetic junk pile. Leon has recomended diving either m or eCCR version manually to force one to "know your po2" at all times.


    Quote Originally Posted by Humuhumu  View Original Post
    Hi,

    a KISS is a mCCR, you pilot the unit manualy (more or less and you can reach the depth you're dreaming of. A Megalodon is an eCCR, the electronic will pilot and you enjoy the dive, you pilot manualy only if you have a problem (this never happens . It's a very personal choice to rely on electronic to inject the O2 or not, but you must know that in both cases (KISS or Meg) you rely on the PpO2 displays and so on the 3 O2 sensors.

    Personaly, I used to dive with a modified Dolphin and now I have an InspirationVision: I will never go back, what a great unit ! The Meg is a very nice unit, I know a diver in my club having one and he is very satisfied. The Meg has no on board decompression it's like an Inspiration Classic (it will very probably have in a couple of monthes with Shearwater Research, ask them to know what's cooking) and does not go automaticaly on a secondary controler if the first one is out of order, in this case, you will have to pilot manualy, with only the secondary display, a little like a mCCR. The Inspiration Vision has on board decompression (a complete computer) and offers a complete secondary injection system. That's a choice, both solutions work and you will have to decide what is the best solution for you. Anther point to consider is the CE certification if you need it: the Inspiration is certified, the Meg will be and a KISS is impossible to certifie (please no discussions about SUBMATIX, please, please, please). So I hope this helps, feel free to ask specific information, if I can help, I will do.

    Cheers

    Humuhumu

    Gill Envy

  7. #7
    Shearwater Copis Diver Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy has a reputation beyond repute Gill Envy's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    There are two verison of the KISS, the sport KISS and the classic KISS. The sport kiss is designed for recreational depth limits while the Classic KISS is designed for going deeper. There are now a variety of options for electronics with either model.

    The meg is so modular it's hard to even classify how many major configurations there are but let's say, for simplicity's sake, that there are two major types, the standard Meg and the Copis meg, eCCR and mCCR, each can come in a myriad of scrubber, wing and back plate configurations. Out of the box, the Copis meg is intended for recreational limits while the eCCR version has the redundancy recomended for deeper diving. The Copis can be relatively easily retrofitted with the redundancy necessary for deeper diving, and in line deco. mCCR's are no longer thought of as simply recreational units... many folks are doing remarkably complex and deep dives with them.

    Knowing nothing about what you are hoping to achieve with your diving leaves many questions.

    The big design distinctions between the KISS rebreathers and the manual MEG are front vs back mounted counter lungs. the KISS comes with back mounted counter lungs and the meg comes with front. Some people really don't like having the clutter of front mounted counter lungs and therefore go for the KISS or other back mounted mCCRs. Front mounted counter lungs are generally thought to be more resistant to flooding, though flooding seems remarkably rare. I dive the Copis but have to say that I really have enjoyed the time i've put in both the KISS models and the rEvo... there is a certain sense of freedom to not having to deal with so much stuff on your chest.

    Between the Meg and the KISS brands, the most comperable models would be the Classic KISS to the Copis MEG. The classic KISS has greater redundancy and isolation in it's electronics, in it's stock form. both employ a MFO to assist in maintianing po2, reducing the required frequency of manual injection. both would need off board o2 to go deeper than 300 ft. the Meg has a reputation for having a more robust build quality, but on the other hand you don't hear a lot of complaints from KISS owners even though the units don't appear to be built so Tank like. I believe that one of the options now available with the stock KISS rebreathers includes a VR3 for in line deco.

    Both the Copis meg and the KISS lend themselves to greater field servicability than the eCCR version of the meg.

    Neither the Copis or standard meg comes with in line deco. For the eCCR version, this is not big deal as it keeps you on set point when relying on the controller, allowing for acurate decompression calculations of the off board computer. I recomend using an in line deco computer on an mCCR as there are natural vascilations to the po2, although with practice, it's common to keep the po2 remarkably stable. Still, having a computer plugged in so it can account for the variation in the deco calculations is quite handy, though I've been very surprised to find that both my in line and off board computers calculate very similar decompresion obligations even on longer deeper dives.

    all the megs come with a variety of scrubber options, radial vs axial, and in sized in terms of how much scrubber material they hold... which determines their duration. Radial scrubbers are becoming more common. there is no radial option for the KISS. It's becoming more widely accepted and more commonly varified in testing that Radial scrubbers are more efficient, offering greater duration for the same amount of scrubber, when compared to Axial design.

    the big advantage with the meg brand of rebreathers is that over time, you can mix and match and swap out varios components to meet your changing requirements... it's a rebreather that can grow with you over time.

    You really should also check out the rEvo, as it's got some very nice things to offer as well: thin, more snug design, radial scrubber option, field servicability, dual scrubber compartments, light weight and compact.

    g







    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCrash  View Original Post
    Hello
    I am thinking about going to a ccr in the next couple years. I am still new but not dumb I am just wondering the differnce from a meg and a classic kiss they both seem like very good units.I would like too get something one day that will grow one me maybe one day 180 170 feet dives but that could be me dreaming
    Thanks for the help
    P.S sorry for spelling I am on my blackberry in bed lol

    Gill Envy

  8. #8

    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill Envy  View Original Post
    Correction: The meg comes in an eCCR and an mCCR version, The standard Apex and The Copis.

    I'd also like to point out that if you dive any rebreather as if it "will pilot and you enjoy the dive", you are begging to end up in darwin's genetic junk pile. Leon has recomended diving either m or eCCR version manually to force one to "know your po2" at all times.
    Hi Gill,

    100% true, all rebreathers require the same attention level even scr's.
    what our young friend has to know is that a rebreather always waits to stab his user's back.
    I've have not enjoyed my ccr dive immediatly, it took me a long time to both keep a close eye on my gauges and enjoy the scenary around.
    the one that immediatly enjoy ccr dives thinking their Eccr will do the all job for them are in danger.
    regards
    jean mi

  9. #9

    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Hi,
    it is true that mccrs and eccrs are converging, sensor's connected computers, huds, alarms, solenoid parachutes (hybrid mccr/eccr computer) are destroying the borders btw mccrs and eccrs.
    Mabye should we advise our young friend to make a first choice for pure mccr or pure eccr in order to learnt properly one of the 2 methods and then only after change his rebreather configuration.
    getting trained on a standard configuration is mabye wiser for a young rebreather diver.
    personnaly I don't like to mix the 2 methods, I dive pure kiss style (even if I have alarms), it keep's my attention high...but it is a strict personnal choice.
    it is difficult nowdays to make a choice btw all the rebreathers and configurations available.
    regards
    jean mi



    Quote Originally Posted by Gill Envy  View Original Post
    There are two verison of the KISS, the sport KISS and the classic KISS. The sport kiss is designed for recreational depth limits while the Classic KISS is designed for going deeper. There are now a variety of options for electronics with either model.

    The meg is so modular it's hard to even classify how many major configurations there are but let's say, for simplicity's sake, that there are two major types, the standard Meg and the Copis meg, eCCR and mCCR, each can come in a myriad of scrubber, wing and back plate configurations. Out of the box, the Copis meg is intended for recreational limits while the eCCR version has the redundancy recomended for deeper diving. The Copis can be relatively easily retrofitted with the redundancy necessary for deeper diving, and in line deco. mCCR's are no longer thought of as simply recreational units... many folks are doing remarkably complex and deep dives with them.

    Knowing nothing about what you are hoping to achieve with your diving leaves many questions.

    The big design distinctions between the KISS rebreathers and the manual MEG are front vs back mounted counter lungs. the KISS comes with back mounted counter lungs and the meg comes with front. Some people really don't like having the clutter of front mounted counter lungs and therefore go for the KISS or other back mounted mCCRs. Front mounted counter lungs are generally thought to be more resistant to flooding, though flooding seems remarkably rare. I dive the Copis but have to say that I really have enjoyed the time i've put in both the KISS models and the rEvo... there is a certain sense of freedom to not having to deal with so much stuff on your chest.

    Between the Meg and the KISS brands, the most comperable models would be the Classic KISS to the Copis MEG. The classic KISS has greater redundancy and isolation in it's electronics, in it's stock form. both employ a MFO to assist in maintianing po2, reducing the required frequency of manual injection. both would need off board o2 to go deeper than 300 ft. the Meg has a reputation for having a more robust build quality, but on the other hand you don't hear a lot of complaints from KISS owners even though the units don't appear to be built so Tank like. I believe that one of the options now available with the stock KISS rebreathers includes a VR3 for in line deco.

    Both the Copis meg and the KISS lend themselves to greater field servicability than the eCCR version of the meg.

    Neither the Copis or standard meg comes with in line deco. For the eCCR version, this is not big deal as it keeps you on set point when relying on the controller, allowing for acurate decompression calculations of the off board computer. I recomend using an in line deco computer on an mCCR as there are natural vascilations to the po2, although with practice, it's common to keep the po2 remarkably stable. Still, having a computer plugged in so it can account for the variation in the deco calculations is quite handy, though I've been very surprised to find that both my in line and off board computers calculate very similar decompresion obligations even on longer deeper dives.

    all the megs come with a variety of scrubber options, radial vs axial, and in sized in terms of how much scrubber material they hold... which determines their duration. Radial scrubbers are becoming more common. there is no radial option for the KISS. It's becoming more widely accepted and more commonly varified in testing that Radial scrubbers are more efficient, offering greater duration for the same amount of scrubber, when compared to Axial design.

    the big advantage with the meg brand of rebreathers is that over time, you can mix and match and swap out varios components to meet your changing requirements... it's a rebreather that can grow with you over time.

    You really should also check out the rEvo, as it's got some very nice things to offer as well: thin, more snug design, radial scrubber option, field servicability, dual scrubber compartments, light weight and compact.

    g

  10. #10
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Re: Thinking about a CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisCrash  View Original Post
    Hello
    I am thinking about going to a ccr in the next couple years. I am still new but not dumb I am just wondering the differnce from a meg and a classic kiss they both seem like very good units.I would like too get something one day that will grow one me maybe one day 180 170 feet dives but that could be me dreaming
    Thanks for the help
    P.S sorry for spelling I am on my blackberry in bed lol

    THE most important thing to know 1st is that 9 people died on rebreathers in the last 3 months - the death rate on these things is very much higher than OC.

    The rest of the answers can be found here (but ask quick as people are dropping like flies) :D

    One thing I will advise on is your choice of instructor may be as, if not more, important than your choice of rebreather


    Take a look at the divers you know who are doing the kind of diving you want to do and see what units they are using - talk to them
    Last edited by Drmike; 30th September 2008 at 09:03.

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