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Thread: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

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    New Member GDI is an unknown quantity at this point GDI's Avatar
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    Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Just looking for what many of you see as what should be the protocols for using rebreathers in the caves:

    What sort of training and skill sets do you see as being required?

    What equipment minimums?

    Prerequisites for Training?

    Rebreather Team concepts:

    a. Matching Systems
    b. Team configurations

    Anything in General?

    What would say would be the impact (if any) of rebreathers on the cave environemnts?

  2. #2
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI  View Original Post
    Just looking for what many of you see as what should be the protocols for using rebreathers in the caves:

    What sort of training and skill sets do you see as being required?

    What equipment minimums?

    Prerequisites for Training?

    Rebreather Team concepts:

    a. Matching Systems
    b. Team configurations

    Anything in General?

    What would say would be the impact (if any) of rebreathers on the cave environemnts?
    In addition to full cave skills student should be intimately familiar with bailout gas drills, team bailout, gas management between mixed and similar teams. Many CCR divers are unaware their breathing rates have changed since switching to CCR so a challenging exit while on OC bailout is a telling experience.
    As far as minium equipment the only thing I believe should be mandatory specific to overhead is a HUD in order to follow the principal of always know your PO2, even in a total siltout.
    The cave student should be taken through a very uneven cave so they can see the effects of vaiable depth on diluent supply.
    Thirds are still in effect but are based on O2, diluent and scrubber duration with scrubber duration being the controlling factor in most cases.
    Priority is on distance not time as the CCR must not go further in than bailout can get him out safely but has lots of time for things like lost buddy, lost line drills.
    I did intro on OC and full cave on CCR so I have seen both sides. There are many minor differences but most of the major aspects of training was the same.
    Last edited by wedivebc; 31st August 2008 at 15:49.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI  View Original Post
    Just looking for what many of you see as what should be the protocols for using rebreathers in the caves:

    What sort of training and skill sets do you see as being required?

    What equipment minimums?

    Prerequisites for Training?

    Rebreather Team concepts:

    a. Matching Systems
    b. Team configurations

    Anything in General?

    What would say would be the impact (if any) of rebreathers on the cave environemnts?
    Since its required to carry bailout I would recommend side mounting them. Just makes you a lot more stream lined and eliminates the danglies.

    If your new to rebreather diving I would suggest you get at least a 100 hours on your unit as your buoyancy is going to be a issue.

  4. #4
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Boyancy is a bitch and you get through an inordanate amount of diluient.

    Apart from that its prety much like OC cave except there is a grey safety margen tacked on the end of the planned safety.

    ATB

    Mark

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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by GDI  View Original Post
    Just looking for what many of you see as what should be the protocols for using rebreathers in the caves:

    What sort of training and skill sets do you see as being required?
    Nothing particularly relevant to CCR. The diver must however understand all cave disciplines.


    What equipment minimums?
    One primary reel enough jump reels for the planned dive, enough line arrows for the planned dive, enough cookies for the planned dive Spare line arrows spare cookies, a search spool, a CCR and some OC gas to breath should the CCR fail.

    Prerequisites for Training?

    Buoyancy control buoyancy control, buoyancy control, buoyancy control and finning techniques.

    Re breather Team concepts:
    Think about every one else before thinking about your self. Plan and strive to be strong enough to not be the week link but accept it humbly if you are.


    a. Matching Systems
    b. Team configurations

    Matching systems is recommended matching protocols are essential.

    Team configurations? I don't see this as important. Every one should be able to lead and to follow.


    Anything in General?

    What would say would be the impact (if any) of rebreathers on the cave environments?

    CCR is a way of making a simple cave dive complicated and a complicated cave dive safer.

    ATB

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark Chase; 1st September 2008 at 13:01.

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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Quote Originally Posted by GDI  View Original Post
    What sort of training and skill sets do you see as being required?
    The biggest skill, teaching a diver when a rebreather is appropriate in a cave. Owning a Rebreather isn't enough of a justification to cave dive on a RB.

    What equipment minimums?
    Everything you would take apart from the twinset. Make sure you would have the same number of gas sources as you would on OC -- the argument that a CCR has more options doesn't hold water (no pun intended). Have a f**k load of OC bailout in the event of a CO2 hit, I've had one minor one underground and a long way from home and I had to crowbar my drysuit out of my sphincter post-dive. Skills, be able to do everything an OC cave diver can do AND everything you need to do to keep your rebreather running.

    Prerequisites for Training?
    OC Cave I've probably said it a million times but rebreathers are in the same category as scooters in caves. You wouldn't learn cave diving on a scooter so why would you learn on a RB? A rebreather cave course isn't teaching you to dive in caves, it's teaching you to dive in rebreather caves.


    What would say would be the impact (if any) of rebreathers on the cave environemnts?
    There are caves where rebreathers just aren't necessary and clanging bailout cylinders off the walls isn't doing them any good. A RB with bailout will never be as clean and streamlined as a twinset or sidemount rig.

    Cheers,

    Stuart
    Last edited by lizardland; 31st August 2008 at 21:56.

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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    Thanks for bringing this up, it is good food for thought. I am OC cave trained however to the best of my knowledge there are no rebreather cave instructors in Australia. Whilst the Cave Diving Association of Australia (CDAA) have excellent training, access and protocols in place for OC, there isn't much in place for rebreathers - rather an "if we ignore the black magic it doesn't exist" approach. The result of this is that if you are rebreather or trimix trained you get this endorsement on your cave certification.

    I plan on completing my CCR Cave course early 2009 in either Florida or France.

    Cheers,

    Ben.

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    Re: Cave Protocols for Rebreathers

    yo

    CCR related emergencies. You need to get them down as you need to perform then in a cave under potentially adverse conditions. If you struggle with your basic survival skills you will struggle with the rest as the emergency drills and situation will come in potential combinations of CCR and cave survival skills.

    Besides learning and performing the cave diving related emergency drills during a training program you will need to perform the CCR related emergency drills such as hypercapnia, hyeroxia, hypoxia, loop flood recovery if unit allows it and manually flying unit as with solenoid stuck open and closed first in open water and then in the cave.

    Buoyancy is key. Hover motionless in 10 feet - 3 meter of water if you want to practice. And motionless means motionless.

    Mastering a skill or skill set is not doing it once but be able to repeat it again and again. Overlaerning of skills is essential in all possible combinations.

    greetings
    Matt
    N 20' 37.617'
    W 87' 04.693'

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