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Thread: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

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    RBW Member Anders Thulin is an unknown quantity at this point Anders Thulin's Avatar
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    Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    When I penetrate wrecks today, and have deco and stage bottles. I put them outside the entrance... (I dive OC now, but my Pelagian comes i August :)) The most RB divers I seen and read about has often a 80cf bottle as bailout. But when they penetrate wrecks, do they take it with them inside the wreck? If not, do the rely on the small bailout that the 2-3 liters diluent can give? (If BOV is included)

    As I see it today, it's a to great risk to take a 80cf bailout bottle with inside a narrow wreck, but maybe thats the only way??

    You guys with experience, how do you do it?

    /Anders

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Thulin  View Original Post
    When I penetrate wrecks today, and have deco and stage bottles. I put them outside the entrance... (I dive OC now, but my Pelagian comes i August :)) The most RB divers I seen and read about has often a 80cf bottle as bailout. But when they penetrate wrecks, do they take it with them inside the wreck? If not, do the rely on the small bailout that the 2-3 liters diluent can give? (If BOV is included)

    As I see it today, it's a to great risk to take a 80cf bailout bottle with inside a narrow wreck, but maybe thats the only way??

    You guys with experience, how do you do it?

    /Anders
    Can't say I have tons of experience to speak to the specifics... but fundementally, whatever your counting on has to be enough to solve the problem and egress.... Take a read through one of Dr. Mike's 'issue' posts where he found himself silted out inside a mazelike passage way at depth, certainly not something I'd want to do on a 2-3L bottle.

    I'd consider dropping excess deco gas at the enterance, but immediate bailout goes with me, it may also be unclipped and pushed ahead no-mount style. I use 40's in the ocean, and 80's in the caves thus far.

    -Tim

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Hi Anders,

    Two simple questions:

    1) do you think a 2 or 3l tank will last a long time especially when you are stressed ?
    2) do you think that water is more easy to breathe than gas?

    ;)

  4. #4
    RBW Member pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476's Avatar
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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Bailout isn't only for a breakthrough. It may also need to be used to replace lost gas. It just wouldn't take long for 3 liter to escape through a catastrophic failure at depth before the tap is turned off (if it can be turned off.)

    I agree with Tim and go a bit further, perhaps. I take a page from American Express and car restraint belts. I never leave "home" without enough bailout to make it all the way back to the surface for a planned dive + emergency deco. And like a seat belt I do it every time, cause that's the only way that it works.

    In the cave is one thing. In most caves you have to go back the same way that you came in, so staging bottles works great. If there was a chance that I'd have to exit and start for the surface from a different point than I came in (like in a wreck) I wouldn't take the bottles off. If you side mount them, they're really not much of a problem if you're trimmed out well. If there was no way that I could be forced to exit at a point other than entry, I'd be tempted and willing to leave a bottle or two if they contained my deco gas, but never, never, my bottom gas bailout.

    The whole bailout volume and procedures issue is one of planning philosophy isn't it? You're planning for the worst case, the best case, or something in between.

    Paul

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    RBW Member pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476 has a spectacular aura about pwl4476's Avatar
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    Meg

    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    One thing that I meant to add, but forgot.

    In a pinch a portion of that bailout bottle gas belongs to my buddy. I can't leave his/her gas behind.

    Paul

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Thulin  View Original Post
    When I penetrate wrecks today, and have deco and stage bottles. I put them outside the entrance... (I dive OC now, but my Pelagian comes i August :)) The most RB divers I seen and read about has often a 80cf bottle as bailout. But when they penetrate wrecks, do they take it with them inside the wreck? If not, do the rely on the small bailout that the 2-3 liters diluent can give? (If BOV is included)

    As I see it today, it's a to great risk to take a 80cf bailout bottle with inside a narrow wreck, but maybe thats the only way??

    You guys with experience, how do you do it?

    /Anders
    If you carry two 40cf Luxfers in the proper sidemount manner you will hardly know they are there. Should be no need to drop them unless you are doing stuff that is too tight to use a backmounted rebreather on IMHO. On board dil is not enough bailout for open water let alone overhead. With the 40s you could carry an 80 in the usual stage manner to drop outside if you have much depth to deal with. If you are very deep then the 40s may not cover the bases, the 40s are the minimum I would use. Always better to have to much rather than almost enough.

    RAL

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Hi Anders,

    I agree with what Paul has said here plus there is another option which is specially useful if you're doing deepish wreck penetrations and that is to take a smaller (5 L) tank with you along with your others.

    Stage the larger more cumbersome tanks at the opening and take the 5 L inside in case something goes wrong. It's not all that much more messing around as you can have it hooked up as your primary bailout and sling the bigger tanks so you can remove and replace them easier.

    It's all a bit of a juggling routine and just another option that could be useful for this particular instance.

    Regards,

    Lance

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Andres:

    You will learn all this as you take your Mod1,2,&3 classes about gas planing for CCR and your advanced wreck for CCR. It all depends on variables of Depth, penetration distance, penetration path, and number of divers in your team. After you purge a 3L bottle will give about 4-6 breaths at any decent wrecks depth. Not a very good option to rely on unless you never go much past 1 or 2 ata. I do not recommend playing with this until you go though your classes. Better safe than sorry.;)



    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Thulin  View Original Post
    When I penetrate wrecks today, and have deco and stage bottles. I put them outside the entrance... (I dive OC now, but my Pelagian comes i August :)) The most RB divers I seen and read about has often a 80cf bottle as bailout. But when they penetrate wrecks, do they take it with them inside the wreck? If not, do the rely on the small bailout that the 2-3 liters diluent can give? (If BOV is included)

    As I see it today, it's a to great risk to take a 80cf bailout bottle with inside a narrow wreck, but maybe thats the only way??

    You guys with experience, how do you do it?

    /Anders

  9. #9
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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    Quote Originally Posted by pwl4476  View Original Post
    One thing that I meant to add, but forgot.

    In a pinch a portion of that bailout bottle gas belongs to my buddy. I can't leave his/her gas behind.

    Paul
    Really, so you and your buddy are bailing out on one bottle? Boy you're having a really bad day when that happens.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: Bailout when penetrating wrecks?

    It all depends on the logistics of the dive and the penetration. The amount of carried BO will vary upon the time needed to get to the staged tanks. Then again, what if you get tangled and need extra time to get free?

    I bring up this scenario for a reason. Last weekend I got stuck inside a wreck at about 120' of depth. I spent 20 minutes trying to get free (obviously, I made it). After the dive, I figured my gas needs at depth x time - s**t, I needed a lot more gas. I had an AL40 on me which would have lasted me for about 8-9 minutes, but I was stuck for 20 min. It is just a damn good thing that my RB didn't crap out at that point.
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