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Thread: HUD - do you miss this feature

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    New Member Gman is an unknown quantity at this point Gman's Avatar
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    HUD - do you miss this feature

    Hi all - a quick introduction been diving since 1990 BSAC & PADI DM, dive all year in the UK, plus holiday diving in Red Sea, Mexico, Cyprus etc.


    As I torture myself trying to decide between a SK/Classsic or an AP Evo, I have one major concern.

    I see a HUD as a useful safety feature, as a potential early warning system that prompts you to immediately check your pp02 monitors.

    I fully understand that you ALWAYS KNOW YOUR PP02 but imagine you check your PP02 every 2 minutes, that means you have 2 minutes zone of "unknown" where PP02 could be dropping too low or going too high.....
    Excuse my ignorance if this scenario is not possible; but unless you have your PP02 monitor in front of your face how can you always know your ppo2 ??

    I'm not sure I could relax on a KISS CCR and would devlop handset fixation !!

    Can you reassure me how you handle this in real life

    Thanks Gareth

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    Classic Kiss

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    Gareth,

    less time spent theorising and more in water is good :)

    In reality, you try to maintain depth. If you depth is constant and you feel a change in bouyancy, check your Po2;

    - more bouyant is either a change in depth, a failure of wing/suit inflator, or your loop isnt breathing down at the rate you expect).

    - Less bouyant is either a change in depth, a leaking wing/suit, or you've breathed down your loop.

    Its not as complex as you think, most of the CCR alarms have an intuitive side to them anyway. Get to know your widget and treat is as part of your body. When something "feels" funny, theres usually a reason.


    /Zak

    PS. Things dont tend to happen "rapidly" on CCR.

  3. #3
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman
    Hi all - a quick introduction been diving since 1990 BSAC & PADI DM, dive all year in the UK, plus holiday diving in Red Sea, Mexico, Cyprus etc.


    As I torture myself trying to decide between a SK/Classsic or an AP Evo, I have one major concern.

    I see a HUD as a useful safety feature, as a potential early warning system that prompts you to immediately check your pp02 monitors.

    I fully understand that you ALWAYS KNOW YOUR PP02 but imagine you check your PP02 every 2 minutes, that means you have 2 minutes zone of "unknown" where PP02 could be dropping too low or going too high.....
    Excuse my ignorance if this scenario is not possible; but unless you have your PP02 monitor in front of your face how can you always know your ppo2 ??

    I'm not sure I could relax on a KISS CCR and would devlop handset fixation !!

    Can you reassure me how you handle this in real life

    Thanks Gareth
    Skilled CCR divers after a while know instinctively how and when their loop ppO2 is subject to major changes and that is often when they check their handsets more frequently. These times are when ascending or when descending or working hard. This is when CCR divers check their PPO2 more often. Its important to realise that if you are at constant depth the ppo2 drops very slowly indeed - there is no need to be checking your handsets at a high frequency at this time. On courses instructors often get students to turn off their O2 injection and observe just how slowly the ppo2 drops over time swimming at a constant depth.

    I would interpret the phrase 'always know your ppo2' as more than just checking your handsets. Its important to know when you must check them. In fact the more experienced a CCR diver becomes and the better in tune to how his units ppo2 is effected by what hes doing, then the less often he will be seen checking his handsets. He/she would be seen checking them more often during those times that they know it is more subject to change.


    Learning this is IMO what differenciates a skilled CCR diver from someone who just dives a CCR

    On the subject of a HUD, I have found that often the mind can, and does after a while not notice things that is right infront of it - you still have to develop the habit of looking, checking the HUD light, in the same way as you would develop the habit of looking, checking a handset (unless of course the HUD display is really distracting) Have you ever not noticed a flashing 'empty fuel' warning light on your car? Its the same deal. I believe you have to develop the habit of checking your HUD (again unless its distracting such as a very bright warning light that is distracting enough during day dives or a vibrator) This has certainly been my experience.

    Its not hard, its just a habit that you develop thru practice in the same way as you develop the habit of checking your rear view mirror more often when your breaking the speed limit than when your not :D

  4. #4
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    JJ Hybrid

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    I have watched other CCR divers in the water and noted just how rubbish the suposed 1min 2min 5min check thing is. They just dont. I timed one chap at 18mins.

    Having seen people bagging up spidge, catchig lobsters, laying line, penitrating wrecks, shooting vidio etc. etc I have grave doubts as to how many genuinly check their hand sets as much as they claim. I have used a HUD from OW sea dive No 2 and I hate diving without it.

    I have a classic INSPIRATION and use Uris aftermarket HUD.

    ATB

    Mark Chase

  5. #5
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    JJ Hybrid

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    Itís fair to say the solid green lights of a steady set point vanish so as you hardly notice them. However the second the red light starts flashing in your eye you do take notice pretty dammed fast.

    The only down side is when the HUD is playing up and a red is flickering on and off when the hand sets are saying all is fine. Then the flashing red can fall away as background noise. The argument is when this happens you either have to be extra vigilant or abort the dive. Your choice? Its only happened twice to me and the cause was corrosion in the Lumberg connector giving intermittent contact and false readings on one of the three cells.

    ATB

    Mark Chase

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    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase
    Itís fair to say the solid green lights of a steady set point vanish so as you hardly notice them. However the second the red light starts flashing in your eye you do take notice pretty dammed fast.

    The only down side is when the HUD is playing up and a red is flickering on and off when the hand sets are saying all is fine. Then the flashing red can fall away as background noise. The argument is when this happens you either have to be extra vigilant or abort the dive. Your choice? Its only happened twice to me and the cause was corrosion in the Lumberg connector giving intermittent contact and false readings on one of the three cells.

    ATB

    Mark Chase
    I actually managed to turn my unit off whilst crawling through a small hole coming out of a wreck once. The lack of any HUD light meant there was nothing to draw my attention to the fact my unit was off - I didnt notice. Luckily I was ascending so my habit to check my handset brought the drop in PPO2 to my attention - only then did I notice the HUD lights were off. This example showed me the importance of developing a habit to physically look ar your HUD, this and other problems Ive had lead me to belive that HUDs are great as a back up to the habit of handset checking. I especially like them when laying line

  7. #7
    RBW Member dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t has much to be proud of dave t's Avatar
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    I like my HUD and now I have dived with one I wouldnt want to be without it. The advice from the other guys is very good stuff but there are times when a HUD makes life easier, for instance when you have both your hands full doing something else, if you are an instructor and need to keep your eye on your students. Twice my HUD has alerted me to a problem which I could deal with in an instant, it may have been a little worse if I was just relying on looking at my handsets.
    As said by others a HUD that constantly blinks is not so good as your brain tends to tune it out. A HUD that just gives steady (green) lights whilst everything is ok is still tuned out but is instantly noticed as soon as it starts to flash a warning

    Dave

  8. #8
    The HUD is a huge plus, I dived an inspiration for a year and instinctively wheather from training and/or habit spent a lot of time checking the hand sets when diving. However once I started shooting stills and video on the RB I almost never checked the handsets when at constant depths or during heavy task loaded periods of a dive except descent/ascent. Realistically I was counting on the Insp buzzer to be my guide if things were off.

    Since March I have dived the evo and can not imagine diving without the HUD. I agree that the green lights tend to "disappear" as they should - but when the red light flickers you instantly notice and respond by checking the handset. I have yet to encounter a situation where the HUD gave false alarms, it seems rock solid. Where it plays a bigger role is in total silt-outs and black out conditions. It is VERY comforting when your in soup so thick you can barely read a handset through the mask to have the two little glimmering green lights and not needing to refer to a handset or push a button to backlight the handset when your hands are full.

    I still take time on a dive to check the handset, watch the cell behavior as the solenoid fires, and just generally make sure the cells are reading as I would expect. I just do it less frequently with a HUD. I'm not sure this is all that smart but it is what seems to happen. The big question is "does relying on the HUD equate to relying on the buzzer?" to let you know a problem is occurring later than you would notice if you were consistently watching the hand sets. I suspect it is the same warning system triggered by the same set of conditions, the only advantage being that the HUD is in your face, you know it is your unit not anyone else on your team and the need for action is clear. Where as I have seen/heard peoples buzzers going off and they might not even notice.

    My $.02, the comparison of a kiss and an evo are not to be distinguished by the HUD but more by their fundamental operational principals. I think both designs make sense it's really a choice of the type of systems you want and perhaps by the type of diving you participate in.

    Doug

  9. #9
    RBW Member Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought is just really nice Deep Thought's Avatar
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    rEvo,Meg,Inspo,Titan,Prism2

    SCR's,Optima,MkVI,KISS

    The HUD is very handy, however it is easily overlooked and many people assume because it is in view of your faceplate that it is noticeable to the point of distraction. This is completely wrong; in fact the position of the HUD in the case of a Meg needs to be adjusted to optimize the blinking light as well as the mask I choose greatly affects my downward vision and sometimes obstructs the view.



    I think of it much like putting sunglasses on, and how quickly we ignore the frames to look at things like "Hot CCR Babes"....



    I am reminded of a dive in Truk last year where I was swimming deep inside a wreck, busy with buoyancy, holding a light, and snapping photos so my hands were full, and my attention spit between several tasks. If I were to look at the wrist unit I would have needed to adjust my grip on the camera and shine a light on the screen to assure vision, or enable the backlight by pushing a button. Here the HUD was a great friend and told me what I needed by consciously focusing on the lower right corner of my mask...humm..blinking red should be green, add shot of O2. I didn't have to stop my relentless pursuit of the next great photograph by looking at my wrist display.



    So view the HUD as a convenience factor, as your safety is not dependant on this item but more dependant on your habits and attention to changes of the unit. Who knows it may be valuable when the natural (lazy) side of your brain tells you "I'm too busy looking at pretty fishes / cool shipwrecks to attend to my PO2", the other side may tell you to "look at the blinking light".


    ron

  10. #10
    Stefan Besier caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7's Avatar
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    PRISM Topaz & Sport KISS

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    I've used the same RB with and without HUD. I prefer the HUD.
    On setpoint it has a slow, pulsating green color that fades into the background.
    Above and below setpoint alarms are red and blue, respectively, and get your attention.

    Aside from that, they're much more useful in zero viz than handsets.

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