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Thread: My BP-60 success story!

  1. #11
    RBW Member Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck is a jewel in the rough Crazyduck's Avatar
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Thanks for the correction.
    Regards, Andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by iratnl  View Original Post
    I've used the Shearwater GF and now Pursuit with the K1D sensors on my KISS Sport with no problems at all.

  2. #12
    BioPak60 Deathbox! rchrds will become famous soon enough rchrds will become famous soon enough rchrds will become famous soon enough rchrds's Avatar
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    BP-60, Revo Mod1

    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Quote Originally Posted by DanFountain  View Original Post
    Jason,

    Nicely done!

    Where do you mount the sensors?

    How does the counterlung spring affect the breathing? In its original terrestrial application the BP-60 uses the spring to maintain positive pressure in the loop. Just wondering how this works out in different orientations underwater.

    -Dan
    The sensor are mounted on the top cover of the scrubber (which is a thin stainless steel plate) where there is a significant space between the top of the scrubber and the stainless top cover. I am not home at the moment, or I would add a picture. The spring works fine for this application- it is not perfect, after four hours my cheeks are a little sore as there is a slight negative pressure at the mouthpiece- Not really enough to cause a problem breathing, just slightly uncomfortable. I have a bunch of slightly thicker springs and I will experiment with trimming them to the proper length to increase the spring pressure. This will make the inhale just a bit easier and the exhale a tad more difficult. If I didn't already have these springs that happen to be exactly the right diameter I probably would not bother, as it really is not that noticeable- and still much easier to breath than the Kiss.

    Jason

  3. #13
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    BP-60, Revo Mod1

    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    So- an update on the Biopak 60, as a couple of people have been asking.

    After returning from the Yucatan (see post pic above) the machine got a few straight weeks of use in Florida, where a friend of mine, and ADV contributing author Jon Bojar, took some photos for me. In addition, the machine got a dive at Blue Spring Resurgence, in Tennessee, one of the projects that Chrissy and I have been working on for the last couple of years.
    Some things I have learned:
    I still, consistently get 4 hours of burn time out of this "60 minute" scrubber. This is true in both Florida 72 degree water and Tennessee 50 degree water. I was sure that we would have to insulate the can somehow, but that has not proven to be the case. My attempt at rigging an in water self-donning harness has not been a success. In Tennessee, the cave requires that the machine be pushed approximately 150 feet into the cave before it can be donned- this was quite the pain in the ass, as it does not float level, and is quite difficult to manage through tight areas with one hand. In addition, Chrissy had to make all of the attachments for me, as I was unsure that I would be able to get to them in the cave. We got it on, and the dive continued (horrific 2 foot viz for four hours) and it worked just fine throughout the dive, but not being able to don the machine myself pretty severly limits my intent for it. More thought will go into this part.
    I still have not managed to purchase a quality gas readout and decompression computer to the machine, but that is coming- Shearwater or the new X1 system will be in hand before the end of 09.
    As for other lessons learned:
    1. The barbed fittings used on the connections for the orifice and pre- and post filters are inadequate. I have found that if the machine sits in the hot sun, the tubing becomes soft enough that under pressure, it will separate from the barbed fittings. Don't know how this did not happen earlier, but it finally did in Florida, and so now I know. I have a few options open for swagelock type fittings, and possibly even the push-lock fittings, to replace the barb orifice, but the price will not be anywhere near as attractive.
    2. My skills with the silver solder are not top notch- the brass tube fit to the fore banjo nut shown in the left side picture has come loose again and leaks gas. This is surely a technique issue, as there is almost 3/8" of contact area between the inner wall of the orifice and the tube, so there should be plenty of solder area available. Lessons to learn.
    3. The K1D sensors in use have a depressingly short life span. One of the sensors is already giving up the ghost, so I will have to change to a different sensor, but that will be a matter of cutting a new sensor block mount, hardly a difficult project.
    4. The diluent and oxygen addition buttons are STILL the same shape. This is not acceptable at all, as the addition manifold is not within view without removing it from its bungee attachment at the right shoulder. The only saving grace is that the gas content changes so slowly it doesn't really matter what button you push, as long as you are watching the readout when you do it, you can figure it out pretty quick. It also helps that I NEVER have had to manually add diluent. I might ask why I even have the diluent button. You never know, I suppose. Anyway, easy fix- hour or two at the mill/lathe.
    5. As mentioned above, attachment harness works well for surface don/doff, but hardly at all in water, and this will have to be addressed.
    6. I am not completely happy with the oxygen mounting business- There are some dives where I would like to have the tank mounted to the machine itself, to clear me of stage bottles, but the amount of gas consumed in four hours (about 2/3 of a 30, after bumping it up for deco) makes for a strange bottle configuration. Mounting the bottle on the bottom makes the whole thing very ass heavy, and if I went to put it on either side, I would probably have to use two bottles, more than I need. More thought on that later.
    7. Deep. Hard to say what is up here. I have made four hour dives at 160 feet, which is as deep as this machine has been, but I would like to take it deeper and see how she works out. Antecdotal reports indicate that I may be able to use the system deeper, switching to manual oxygen addition, but we will see. I would also like to experiment with a non-fixed IP first stage and see how that works out. Stuff to play with later.

    Thanks, for those that have been reading these and building their own machines- good luck with yours, hope to see you ALIVE in the water!

    jason








  4. #14

    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Wow, looks like you did a nice job!

  5. #15
    Supporting Member Sandy is on a distinguished road Sandy is on a distinguished road Sandy's Avatar
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Great little project. I've been keen to hear more for a while. Do you know how much absorbent (kg's or lbs) your scrubber holds? Some BP 60's came with a larger capacity scrubber some with standard ones. If you're not sure can you tell me how deep the scrubber measures?
    Cheers,
    Sandy

  6. #16
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    BP-60, Revo Mod1

    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy  View Original Post
    Great little project. I've been keen to hear more for a while. Do you know how much absorbent (kg's or lbs) your scrubber holds? Some BP 60's came with a larger capacity scrubber some with standard ones. If you're not sure can you tell me how deep the scrubber measures?
    Cheers,
    Sandy
    There are two common (and interchangeable) scrubbers for the 60s (and 30s) the 60 scrubber bed is 39mm deep, and 241mm in diameter, with a 42mm exclusion at the center, which works out to roughly 244 cubic cm, or 14.9 cubic inches.

    I haven't found a good weight per volume for sodasorb, so I'll leave that up to you. I have not gone by calculation on how long the scrubber should last, which I'm sure is where you are heading with this- I just started at 30 minutes, and worked my way up until I noticed effects, and then backed off.

    This is far from an exact method, and of course symptoms dont always show up, nor would I recommend this rather haphazard method of testing, but whatever, it works for me. (The safety hounds are rolling over in their graves.)

    The BP30 scrubber is about half this depth, and is completely interchangeable- I use it for shorter duration dives, so I dont have to waste a whole pile of sorb. (I have found that reusing the sorb doesn't work so well- it tends to clump from previous use, even if I shake it out and repack it- and then symptoms show up much earlier. I dont have a good solid time or size for that scrubber, but I dont do dives over an hour on it- even though it has roughly half the amount of sorb as the larger one. The bed is really thin- and I think that contributes to early breakthrough.

    A quick indicator between the two, if you dont have them both to compare, is that it seems the "60 minute" scrubber beds are always orange, and the "30"s are always yellow. This may not be a hard and fast rule, but I have five of them now, and that seems to be pretty true so far.

    Now, i am told that the scrubber from the 240 may also fit in this unit. I have not seen that, nor do I know for sure if they are interchangeable. I would find it a little hard to believe, as there isn't that much room with the top pan installed- certainly not if you install your sensors up there, which is by far the best place on this unit. I would love to see a 240 scrubber, or for that matter, have a 240 unit, but I have not seen one for a good price yet. (and good price for me is pretty dang cheap.)

    Just FYI, I was just eyeballing some pics of a 240- the scrubber looks very similar to the 60- orange as well, but appears to have an extra ledge that might deepen the scrubber somewhat- but not 4x worth. I wonder if they reduced the safety factor on the 240- added an extra half inch of scrubber and went from 1 hour to 4? Hmmmm. Wonder how much you could really get out of it?

    Anyway, unfortunately, i am not currently with my machine, but I do have all my drawings with me, so I can probably help out with most questions.

    Good luck with your project!

    jason

  7. #17
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Here's a link to give you hard data on scrubber duration in a number of SCBAs, including the BP45, BP60, and BP240. Tests were formally performed in a laboratory setting. Should help to cut through a lot of supposition.

    http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/191521.pdf

    Enjoy.

    Ken

  8. #18
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Quote Originally Posted by rchrds  View Original Post
    3. The K1D sensors in use have a depressingly short life span. One of the sensors is already giving up the ghost, so I will have to change to a different sensor, but that will be a matter of cutting a new sensor block mount, hardly a difficult project.
    Check out tecme.de - Martin has had some sensors custom made by AI to be the internals of a r22 with the package of a K1D

  9. #19
    Supporting Member Sandy is on a distinguished road Sandy is on a distinguished road Sandy's Avatar
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Great details. I wasn't heading down the "you should not do that with x amount of bla, bla, bla," route. Just curious how you found it in practice. I've been playing with my BP at least as long and to date only have one pool dive to my credit. Your data for duration is very interesting. I've built a scrubber for mine which is 53 mm deep. I put my sensors underneath the scrubber in 3 small recesses built into the scrubber base. I can't recall the exact details but I think my BP 60 scrubber held 900 grams of absorbent and my custom one holds 2.2 kg. I think I posted a picture at one time but I'll throw it in again if it gives you any ideas.
    Cheers,
    Sandy
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  10. #20
    RBW Member mwenner is on a distinguished road mwenner is on a distinguished road mwenner's Avatar
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    Re: My BP-60 success story!

    Jason,

    Haven't heard much from you, until I ran into your posts here. Let's us know how you're doing on the TN section. Getting ready to go into Mammoth Cave next month on a 3 to 4 day underground stint. Still working with Pete, at Prism, and might dive Guy James next weekend. Nothing much has changed here, other than it's starting to warm up. Please keep us posted!

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