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Thread: When is a joke not a joke

  1. #21
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by gibbogeo  View Original Post
    Where is possible to see the pictures, specially the ones with italian/spanish/portuguese worlds?

    Thank you.



  2. #22
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmike  View Original Post
    The clay banks in Cow are like looking at a slice through a multilayered cake... Its quite a cool sight to see especially when you consider its taken millions of years for each tiny particle of clay to settle and form these multi colured banks. Its like looking at the rings of a freshly cut tree - each layer like each ring speaks of a specific time in history. I cant imagine anyone willingly destroying that.
    There is a cave in the Dales where they found human footprints in the clay beyond the sump which were dated to prehistoric times which should give a bit of an indication just how long damage will last.

    All popular caves suffer from vandalism and especially underwater there can be no doubt that it is people who should know better. The clay banks in St Georges in France have graffiti on them, sadly the name of a UK caving club was carved there a few years ago in big letters.

    On the other hand, the very act of diving a cave is causing damage to it as anyone who has dived the same site over a period of years will notice. I first dived Font de Truffe in the Lot about ten years ago and it has noticeably degraded, broken rock, scrapes along the ceiling and walls, etc.

    Damaging a cave is nothing like damaging a wreck -- a wreck is manmade, it's artificial, it shouldn't be there to start with and by it's nature (i.e. it's a wreck) it's already broken or it wouldn't be there. It's more akin to going to ancient woodland and chopping down a 700 yr old oak. That said, I've never understood the urge to rip lumps off a wreck so you can have a living room that looks like a Blackpool pub or a shed full of shite.

  3. #23
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanssing  View Original Post
    Sorry to hear about the defamtion.

    But are we sure DIC indicates Chasey?
    Could be something other (though I have no idea what)...
    Cluster
    Cheap
    Compromised
    etc.

    And does anyone have links to pictures of the vandalism?

    Regards
    Nicolai - not a caver.
    I don't believe anyone is trying to implicate Chasey. I don't believe he is even a cave diver. (At least not yet! the force is strong with the cave!;)) I don't think anyone really knows what DIC stands for, if it is a person, place, thing etc. What we do know, is that some ungrateful idiot has ruined something special that will never be the same. People are understandably outraged!

  4. #24
    RBW Member JD White is on a distinguished road JD White is on a distinguished road JD White's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Cave graffiti is an issue here in Oz too. You would be amazed at the people who carve 'KM was here' or 'TD 1985'. I am yet to realise how this makes them feel good.
    Even with Graffiti, the cave is still able to be studied, even if its the spots in between. By removing the graffiti by wiping the area clean, it removes the ability to study it later, and is actually worse than the original graffiti.
    Why some idiot decided to deface what is obviously a great feature speaks wonders of the mindset of that particular diver. I just hope some other lunatic scratches the same all over his new car. Karma is good like that sometimes....

    JD

  5. #25
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Q) When is a joke not a joke...

    A) When someone spends hundreds if not thousands of pounds/euros/dollars/etc... to learn the skills and buy the kit to be able to enter a cave or descend to a reef or a wreck (a place that will only ever be seen by a miniscule percentage of the human race) and then decides to deface the very thing they have come to see.

    It may be that one diver's beautifully layered sediments is another's "mud" just as one one diver's historic wreck is another's rusty metal and another's beautiful reef is just "f***king fish and flowers!" (as I once heard) but that makes the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel "a bit of painting", the Mona Lisa "a passport photo" or the pyramids "piles of rocks". In the end one person's opinion isn't the point, these things are considered worth preserving by a community and should be left undamaged.

    I doubt anyone reading this can understand what motivates someone to do this kind of thing (at least I hope so) and I fervently hope that those responsible are identified, publicly shamed and excluded from diving anywhere that is even remotely fragile ever again. We don't need graffiti divers.

    Someone once said "leave only bubbles, take only photos" - well we don't leave bubbles any more so we have no excuses.

  6. #26
    MEGalomaniac Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic is just really nice Benthic's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmike  View Original Post
    Looking up at the roof of the passageway in Eagles nest circa 90m and I was stunned to see "I WOZ HERE" carved in 4' tall letters....and that was not the only graffiti the flat rock ceiling was covered in it.....can you imagine someone went to the trouble expense and discipline required to dive mix cave to 90m depth and yet still be the kinda person who could do that.
    Ah, but you can't assume that the person responsible for that was on mix. Much of the original exploration and survey of Eagle's Nest was done on air. We were there this past weekend and I saw several instances of graffiti that were hundreds of feet from the entrance. Definitely far enough in that a sneaky recreational diver would not have been able to reach.

    Brian

  7. #27
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    From wrecking caves to dismantling the Wessex at Stoney to porthole collecting to nicking 'our' skeleton, it's the mindset that causes the problem.

    Those who carve their names on things are insecure and need to "prove" that they have been somewhere to others, even though no one else knows who the DIC is.

    Personally, I don't care if people don't believe me when I have done something. I don't get the urge to carve my initials on everything I see, it's enough for me to know that I was there.

    Mind you, I did "carve" an X onto a rock at Stoney with a smaller rock last night dive as I needed a marker that will still be there for the next session. It wasn't very impressiv ethough and will probably be silted over by the next time I'm in.

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