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Thread: When is a joke not a joke

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    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    When is a joke not a joke

    I have just received this Email and some photographs of the damage caused by the divers. Basically they carved DIC into the clay bank. The Doing It Chasey thing is just a self effacing joke but as a result of a tenuous link to my old blog I have been asked to help with the inquiry.

    Whilst the link is in some ways amusing It is also apparent a serious act of vandalism has taken place. If any one has any information then I would be grateful if you contacted myself or Ken in strictest confidence.

    ATB

    Mark



    Mark,
    My name is Ken Hill and a former Cave Diving Section Vice Chairman. This is not a pleasant subject but your name came up in an investigation I am conducting into the defacement of a clay bank in a system owned by the CDS and known as Cow Springs. It's my unpleasant duty to solve or resolve the matter and address all information impartially and objectively.

    Please see the attached pictures indicating the large letters "DIC". Someone has suggested that a proponent of your diving system "Doing it Chasey" is responsible for this. Defacements also occurred on sites belonging to the State of Florida (Peacock) and one that is privately accessed (Ginnie Springs.) There is a published reward and cave divers and others have made the amount $6800.00 USD.

    At this stage of the investigation I find it unlikely that you would have direct knowledge of this incident. I can report that these events took place in the immediate week after DEMA, a time when foreign visitors to the trade show often dive the Florida systems. There is additional information that may indicate that the person(s) responsible may be Spanish, Portuguese or Italian because of a word from one of those languages left at one site. I am thinking you may an idea about some of the more zealous trainees you may have encountered.

    Any information or insight you can give me in this matter will be held in the strictest confidence. As a former US Federal Investigator (ret) and a current private investigator I am bound to give you confidential treatment. Please see such forums as the Cave Divers Forum Cave Diver's Forum - Cave Diving Resource Start and the Deco Stop for additional info that the community has spoken of.

    Again, having spent much time in the UK, serving with Special Branch and the Company Frauds unit in London as well as the Kent Constabulary I hope you receive this inquiry in the proper spirit. Any help you may be able to render is appreciated. "Ta!."

    Ken Hill
    NSS-CDS 44262 RL
    Inst 326


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  2. #2
    Hammerhead CCR diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Mark,

    There have been lots of post on this accross the Cave and other US forums... For obvious reasons they take this very seriously.

    Best Regards,

    Mark

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    Randy Thornton Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Yeah Mark,

    You have been identified on the top 10 most wanted list here in the States. Please do not step foot in this country or you may be possibly arrested for DIC charges!

    Wow, this thing has really picked up speed. Obviously, we take our caves seriously over here, but I am quite surprised to learn that it has taken on international porportions! Good luck. Keep your head low! I was thinking of trying to order one of your t-shirts, but I'm afraid I might be arrested if wearing it while passing over the Florida border!

    Best regards,
    Randy

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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    hmmmm i wonder does the FBI have a DIC file now, and do they watch this forum as well.

    However you could always do a quicky ( dive i mean) and scrible R over the C, and than blame it on the others, maybe even leave some air bubbles while you do to prove that it was a OC diver.

    But never forget to use the DIR approved cave signing tool - you now they can figure out if the right tool was used.

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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by divelermentov  View Original Post
    hmmmm i wonder does the FBI have a DIC file now, and do they watch this forum as well.

    However you could always do a quicky ( dive i mean) and scrible R over the C, and than blame it on the others, maybe even leave some air bubbles while you do to prove that it was a OC diver.

    But never forget to use the DIR approved cave signing tool - you now they can figure out if the right tool was used.


    Sir, the thread your looking for is two isles over.... move along... move along...

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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Seems far more likely that it´s someone without the ability/inclination to spell to the four letter word that includes the same letters?

  7. #7
    SiegeEngine II Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon's Avatar
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    Question Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Not taking the piss or anything, but can someone explain why writing DIC in some mud is anything other than poor spelling? (Chasey, things aren't looking too good for you mate! ;))

    Why a reward? Did they kill someone or something? Can it not be "erased" by smoothing it over? Even that seems a bizarre amount of effort...

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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon  View Original Post
    Not taking the piss or anything, but can someone explain why writing DIC in some mud is anything other than poor spelling? (Chasey, things aren't looking too good for you mate! ;))

    Why a reward? Did they kill someone or something? Can it not be "erased" by smoothing it over? Even that seems a bizarre amount of effort...
    If you had swam down a virgin cave passage then made the same dive a year after the masses found it you would understand.

    RAL

  9. #9
    Moderator jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon  View Original Post
    Not taking the piss or anything, but can someone explain why writing DIC in some mud is anything other than poor spelling? (Chasey, things aren't looking too good for you mate! ;))

    Why a reward? Did they kill someone or something? Can it not be "erased" by smoothing it over? Even that seems a bizarre amount of effort...
    The clay is not soft as you would expect... its a somehwat firm structure.. defacing cave passages should not be tolerated.. these structures take thousands of years to build and only a few minutes to destroy..
    Joe Radomski
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  10. #10
    Tim Owens netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage has much to be proud of netmage's Avatar
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    Re: When is a joke not a joke

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon  View Original Post
    Not taking the piss or anything, but can someone explain why writing DIC in some mud is anything other than poor spelling? (Chasey, things aren't looking too good for you mate! ;))

    Why a reward? Did they kill someone or something? Can it not be "erased" by smoothing it over? Even that seems a bizarre amount of effort...
    Clay is not mud.... In some of these systems, the clay formations and multi colored stratifications are some of most awe inspiration parts.... There have been a number of incidents over the years, and the impact of people onto the caves is readily aparent. All it takes is a dive in ginnie and peacock to see areas covered w/ fin scrapes or hand plants. These serve as stark reminders that the caves are fragile environment and we, as divers, must always strive to keep our shit together so as to not harm the cave and the beauty for future generations. If you can't keep yourself under control, you havn't earned a cave card...

    It's one thing to have some sort of failure on a dive; but blatent graffitti, vandalism and damage to the cave is simply unexcusable... This is a pristine environment, we should leave it as such for everyone to enjoy.

    I too have wondered what it would take to repair, what would the result be of a few folks w/ a trowel... Like the finished cake icing that someone pokes a finger in, no matter how you smooth it out; its still not the same... I also think not raising a stink, and somehow thinking "we'll just repair it" is setting the wrong tone and somehow communicating this type of activity is ok....

    Three identical incidents in three seperate systems, all w/ a timeline around DEMA.... It certainly paints a picture of some outsider coming and taking a shit into our backyard...

    Full text of Florida Cave Protection law...

    Section 810.13 Cave vandalism and related offenses. —
    (1) DEFINITIONS. --As used in this act:
    (a) "Cave" means any void, cavity, recess, or system of interconnecting passages which naturally occurs beneath the surface of the earth or within a cliff or ledge, including natural subsurface water and drainage systems but not including any mine, tunnel, aqueduct, or other manmade excavation, and which is large enough to permit a person to enter. The word "cave" includes any cavern, natural pit, or sinkhole, which is an extension of an entrance to a cave.
    (b) "Cave life" means any life form, which is indigenous to a cave or to a cave ecosystem.
    (c) "Gate" means any structure or device located to limit or prohibits access or entry to a cave.
    (d) "Owner" means a person who owns title to land where a cave is located, including a person who holds a leasehold estate in such land; the state or any of its agencies, departments, boards, bureaus, commissions, or authorities; or any county, municipality, or other political subdivision of the state.
    (e) "Person" means any individual, partnership, firm, association, trust, corporation, or other legal entity.
    (f) "Sinkhole" means a closed topographic depression or basin, generally draining underground, including, but not restricted to, a doline, limesink, or sink.
    (g) "Speleogen" means an erosional feature of a cave boundary, including, but not restricted to, anastomoses, scallops, rills, flutes, spongework, or pendants.
    (h) "Speleothem" means a natural mineral formation or deposit occurring in a cave, including, but not restricted to, a stalagmite, stalactite, helictite, anthodite, gypsum flower, gypsum needle, angel hair, soda straw, drapery, bacon, cave pearl, popcorn (coral), rimstone dam, column, or flowstone. Speleothems are commonly composed of calcite, epsomite, gypsum, aragonite, celestite, or other similar minerals.
    (2) VANDALISM. --It is unlawful for any person, without the prior written permission of the owner, to:
    (a) Break, break off, crack, carve upon, write upon, burn, mark upon, remove, or in any manner destroy, disturb, deface, mar, or harm the surfaces of any cave or any natural material which may be found therein, whether attached or broken, including speleothems, speleogens, or sedimentary deposits. This paragraph does not prohibit minimal disturbance or removal for scientific inquiry.
    (b) Break, force, tamper with, or otherwise disturb a lock, gate, door, or other obstruction designed to control or prevent access to a cave, even though entrance thereto may not be gained.
    (c) Remove, deface, or tamper with a sign stating that a cave is posted or citing provisions of this act.
    (3) CAVE LIFE. --It is unlawful to remove, kill, harm, or otherwise disturb any naturally occurring organism within a cave, except for safety or health reasons. The provisions of this subsection do not prohibit minimal disturbance or removal of organisms for scientific inquiry.
    (4) POLLUTION AND LITTERING. --It is unlawful to store in a cave any chemical or other material, which may be detrimental or hazardous to the cave, to the mineral, deposits therein, to the cave life therein, to the waters of the state, or to persons using such cave for any purposes. It is also unlawful to dump, litter, dispose of, or otherwise place any refuse, garbage, dead animal, sewage, trash, or other similar waste materials in a cave. This subsection shall not apply to activity, which is regulated pursuant to s. 373.106, regarding the intentional introduction of water into an underground formation, or chapter 377, regarding the injection of fluids into subsurface formations in connection with oil or gas operations.
    (5) SALE OF SPELEOTHEMS.--It is unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale any speleothems in this state or to transport them for sale outside this state.
    (6) PENALTIES. --Any person who violates subsection (2), subsection (3), subsection (4), or subsection (5) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s.775.083.
    History. --ss. 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, Ch. 80-356; s. 486, Ch. 81-259.
    NOTE: A First Degree Misdemeanor is a fine of $ 1,000.00.

    -Tim Owens

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