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Thread: Rebreather Comparison Chart

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    Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Here you can see attached the poster that caused such a buzz at the dive show. (click on it to zoom in)

    Kevin tells me that he is willing to change any of the data on here if anyone can supply new data of a similiar quality.

    He also asked me to point out that he did not do the testing himself but commisioned an independant third party to do it on his behalf.
    Attached Images
    Last edited by schford; 16th October 2007 at 09:29.

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Indeed very interesting results (from what I could make out of the blurry charts ;)).

    Thanks Stuart!

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    JJ Hybrid

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Got to applaud Mr Gurr for this.

    A well laid out and relevant set of numbers at last.

    I am shocked that the WOB on the KISS comes out as only slightly worse than a Inspo. I thought the difference was substantial.

    ATB

    Mark Chase

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    JJ Rebreather

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    I heard that the Kiss Classic narrowly failed the old (60/min ???) test which the original inspiration passed. However the modified Inspiration (different t-pieces???) passed the 75 l/min.

    I'm not sure on my facts though so take with a large pinch of salt.

    Janos

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by Janos  View Original Post
    I heard that the Kiss Classic narrowly failed the old (60/min ???) test which the original inspiration passed. However the modified Inspiration (different t-pieces???) passed the 75 l/min.

    I'm not sure on my facts though so take with a large pinch of salt.

    Janos
    if you study the chart correctly, you will see that it contains lot's of ... 'euphemismes' (I did not say 'failures..)

    conc the WOB: the test was done with the units in vertical position: not in diving position: this explains why the rEvo had the worst result: the counterlung of the rEvo comes deepest of all on your back in vertical position, the sentinel has the counterlung in the neck of the diver, so the highest of all in vertical position: so this one was the best, what would you have imagined

    the weight: rEvo second worst with ... 31 kg (on the chart!!!)

    that is correct, with the heavy 300 bar, 3l cylinders, stainless steel chassis, and filled with sorb..

    in analogy with the ouroboros, 34 kg, the rEvo with 2l 230 bar tanks, and empty, is.... 24.2 kg! why not compare apples with apples?? (and don't forget that the titanium rEvo is even 2.5 kg less!)

    and everybody knows that not only the weigth on land is important, but more important the extra weight you need to take to get the unit UNDER water: I wonder how much extra weight you need to get some breathers negative in water, with the huge volume of gas in the scrubber container!

    scrubber efficiency: must be a mistake in the calculation!! (although the scrubber performance of the rEvo is by the best, Kevin mixed up the graph of efficiency (% efficiency of the sorb used): just divide 'time till breaktrough' by the KG each cannister contains, an you get a diff result)....

    or the scrubber of the rEvo was filled less than prescribed by the manufacturer!


    ... so when I notice that the chart was not set-up in an objective way, but to get a specific result, I also have some doubths conc the published data in general..

    regards

    paul
    Last edited by paulraymaekers; 15th October 2007 at 13:54.
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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    conc the WOB: the test was done with the units in vertical position: not in diving position: this explains why the rEvo had the worst result: the counterlung of the rEvo comes deepest of all on your back in vertical position, the sentinel has the counterlung in the neck of the diver, so the highest of all in vertical position: so this one was the best, what would you have imagined
    paul

    I don't understand, was the chart made with CE data or not? Does CE test WOB only in the vertical position?

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Interesting that someone has tried to get figures together, but when data is taken "from the internet" rather than from the same machine it starts to throw a little doubt into the equation. The points Paul makes would seem to corroborate this.

    A more useful exercise would be for all units to be tested in the same way on the same machine. Apples and oranges and all that.

  8. #8
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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by silent running  View Original Post
    I don't understand, was the chart made with CE data or not? Does CE test WOB only in the vertical position?
    the only references I could find in the CE testing is that the manufacturer must give optimal x and y coordinates to the surpa strenal notch.. there is a hydrostatic imbalance test done at various angles with an pressure reading at the mouthpiece at the final opart of the exhale cycle.
    the testing also specifies the diver should be simulated at +90 (vertical) and +0 ( horizontal) positions..


    personally having dove(dived) both a classic and the rEvo, in the normal dive position the rEvo feels like a better breather.. In the vertical position the rEvo is not that great.
    Last edited by jradomski; 15th October 2007 at 03:14.
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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    FWIW, looking at these charts, I am convinced Gordon Smith was way ahead of his time. I am astounded that his unit compares EXCEPTIONALLY well against units costing much more. I applaud Kim for continuing to build and sell one of the best CCRs in the market for an exceptional price!

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    Re: Rebreather Comparison Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    if you study the chart correctly, you will see that it contains lot's of ... 'euphemismes' (I did not say 'failures..)

    conc the WOB: the test was done with the units in vertical position: not in diving position: this explains why the rEvo had the worst result: the counterlung of the rEvo comes deepest of all on your back in vertical position, the sentinel has the counterlung in the neck of the diver, so the highest of all in vertical position: so this one was the best, what would you have imagined

    the weight: rEvo second worst with ... 31 kg (on the chart!!!)

    that is correct, with the heavy 300 bar, 3l cylinders, stainless steel chassis, and filled with sorb..

    in analogy with the ouroboros, 34 kg, the rEvo with 2l 230 bar tanks, and empty, is.... 24.2 kg! why not compare apples with apples?? (and don't forget that the titanium rEvo is even 2.5 kg less!)

    and everybody knows that not only the weigth on land is important, but more important the extra weight you need to take to get the unit UNDER water: I wonder how much extra weight you need to get some breathers negative in water, with the huge volume of gas in the scrubber container!

    scrubber efficiency: must be a mistake in the calculation!! (although the scrubber performance of the rEvo is by the best, Kevin mixed up the graph of efficiency (% efficiency of the sorb used): just divide 'time till breaktrough' by the KG each cannister contains, an you get a diff result)


    ... so when I notice that the chart was not set-up in an objective way, but to get a specific result, I also have some doubths conc the published data in general..

    regards

    paul
    Yes the testing was done in the vertical position

    I would say that the weights came from the units they had

    I don't know how many test they had done but it would be nice to see how the WOB and durations compared at different depths and in both vertical and horizontal.

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