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Thread: CO2 and red blood cell count.

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    RBW Member abc is an unknown quantity at this point abc's Avatar
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    CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Does anyone have any information on the above?

    Note CO2 not CO, but any information useful.

    Thanks in advance if you have anything.

    abc

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Does anyone have any information on the above?

    Note CO2 not CO, but any information useful.

    Thanks in advance if you have anything.

    abc
    I'm not quite sure what you're getting at: my understanding is that the red blood cell count should be pretty constant. After a few days of acclimitization to high altitude, the red blood cell count will rise. Ethically-challenged sportsmen add red blood cells to try to increase their oxygen-carrying capacity for a competition. I am not aware of concentrations of CO2 or CO changing the cell count - it takes days to change the count by producing more red blood cells. Depending on the partial pressure CO and CO2 will bind to the haemoglobin, though.

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    RBW Member SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ is a jewel in the rough SteveJ's Avatar
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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Does anyone have any information on the above?

    Note CO2 not CO, but any information useful.

    Thanks in advance if you have anything.

    abc
    As above, I'm not sure what question you are really asking. Try being a bit more specific....

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveJ  View Original Post
    As above, I'm not sure what question you are really asking. Try being a bit more specific....
    Could high levels of CO2 cause an increase of red blood cell count. I have read CO can do this, but do not have anything on CO2. If so what are typical time scales and levels.
    This does relate to diving an RB although I cannot be more specific at the moment.

    abc

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Could high levels of CO2 cause an increase of red blood cell count. I have read CO can do this, but do not have anything on CO2. If so what are typical time scales and levels.
    This does relate to diving an RB although I cannot be more specific at the moment.

    abc
    In chronic ill health, polycythaemia (increased RBC count) is associated with hypoxia and CO2 retention although it is thought that the primary cause is the low O2 rather than the raised CO2 (respiratory physicians and intensive care specialists may know more). I am unaware of any association between CCR diving and polycythaemia. I would have thought that the raised CO2 would be offset by the raised ppO2 and that the limited time of exposure to CCRs would make major physiological changes unlikely.

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Could high levels of CO2 cause an increase of red blood cell count. I have read CO can do this, but do not have anything on CO2. If so what are typical time scales and levels.
    This does relate to diving an RB although I cannot be more specific at the moment.

    abc
    No.

    Like Steve said, chronic hypoxia (altitude, lung disease etc) will raise the RBC count but it has nothing to do with CO2.

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Havent checked my old Physiology books but would assume that any change in RBC count is due to a long term (7-10 day) constant stress, change in conditions, which causes the body to react to counter the stress.
    ie constant low o2 at altitude, the body recognises it is low in o2 perfusion in the tissue/brain and ups RBC production.

    Therefore i would not expect the same to be experienced in relation increase CO2 due to CCR diving, as the increase CO2 stress is not constant, but is recovered naturally between dives.

    ps. all the above totally ignores the fact that RBC's are designed (wrong word but you know what i mean) to move 02 to the tissues without oxidising everything in sight, and not to move CO2 back from the tissues to the lung.

    The side affect of the chloride shift / ion transfer into the RBC caused by CO2 absorbtion into the blood plasma is a mechanism that increase o2 release in tissues that require o2 rather than the primary route or transport of CO2 (i think)

    ok i;m rambling and not really making a point so will shut up!

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Could high levels of CO2 cause an increase of red blood cell count. I have read CO can do this, but do not have anything on CO2. If so what are typical time scales and levels.
    This does relate to diving an RB although I cannot be more specific at the moment.

    abc
    To my knowledge there is no connection between CO2 and red cell count. As already mentioned, people with lung disease that causes hypoxia may have an increase in their red cell count. They may also have increased CO2 levels in the blood, but both result from the same primary cause (the lung disease).

    Conversely, one of the limiting factors in exposing humans to chronic hyperoxia such as in saturation diving has been the development of anaemia (i.e. a fall in red cell count).

    There clearly is something behind this question - care to share? Maybe we can help.

    Andy

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc  View Original Post
    Could high levels of CO2 cause an increase of red blood cell count. I have read CO can do this, but do not have anything on CO2. If so what are typical time scales and levels.
    This does relate to diving an RB although I cannot be more specific at the moment.

    abc
    We controll our breathing with the CO2 level in our blood. Ous sensor for CO2 said we must breath when the CO2 Level is to high. People with lung sickness
    ( COPD : chronic obstructive lung disease) have on every time a high CO2 level. So our sensors switch to measuring the O2 levles in their blood. The breathing will be control by the O2 level.

    CO has an 4 x so high affinty to our red blood cells than O2. So we can´t absorb O2 when the CO level is to high. Our skin is very rosy but although we have a problem to absorb enough O2 for our cell´s. This is very dangerous and can lead to death.

    I hope i can help with this and please don´t be angry about my english.

    Cheers Markku

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    Re: CO2 and red blood cell count.

    The first to come to mind is this one:

    Effect of prolonged exposure to elevated carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide levels on red blood cell parameters during submarine patrols.
    Wilson and Schaefer. Undersea Biomed Res. 1979;6 Suppl:S49-56.
    RRR ID: 2633

    Schaefer did a TON of work on elevated CO2 and many of those papers can be found listed here.

    --The NSMRL CO is a good friend and we are currently concentrating some effort their collection now if you need help with any of those.

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