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Thread: LIDS (London Dive Show) My Write Up

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    SiegeEngine II Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon has a reputation beyond repute Mdemon's Avatar
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    LIDS for me

    I had the same sort of the same experience with DeltaP as Fathoms Down. Very helpful actually, took me right through all the bits even after I'd made it clear I couldn't afford one! However, when I started asking more technical questions about the scrubber I was politely told they weren't going to talk about it in detail... Fair enough I suppose, they spent a lot of time developing it and all that.

    AP were, as usual, very helpful and I got a great deal on some spares. The Evo/Inspo stand seemed to be packed every time I walked passed it and it was interesting to see the number of couples discussing them. I think the smaller format was a shrewd business move as it opens the market up to the smaller and/or more travel-oriented diver, which of course includes the female techies.

    I went there primarily for the seminars. So of course I took the "road works" route through London and missed most of the Horror Bus talk. However, I saw enough to see a heavy emphasis on WOB and safety. I did wonder what benefits it really offers for £8-and-a-bit grand though. The duration seems similar to the Inspo and appears camouflaged on the Data sheet as duration compared with CO2 production rather than the straight comparison figure of hours. I stand to be corrected on this one though... Could the Meg be better value for money...?

    Next up was Martin Parker on the Evo. It was his first run-through of the presentation which I found very interesting. It did focus a lot on the safety aspects (first to use an ANSTI machine etc etc) and a fair amount of trumpet blowing but that’s fair enough. Having not seen the factory, the pictures of the production and testing machines were not only interesting but reassuring – someone has put the YBOD/Evo together based on fact, not assumption (a point he laboured :) ). There was a good reverse tear-down of the Evo which highlighted some of the changes from the Inspo. There was also a lot of time given to the handsets/computers and a lot of slides dedicated to showing the download software and what’s shown on it. The CO2 monitoring was very interesting and an explanation of how this worked in detail was very welcome. I had assumed they would measure the reaction front, but in fact it was the cold area behind the reaction front which was most relevant. He also described the CO2 testing they do and I was particularly interested to hear of the test at a simulated 75m startup at 4 degrees with 150lpm of CO2 (figure might be out but it was stupidly high!). Absolutely no CO2 breakthrough whatsoever! That, and a brief chat afterwards confirmed my thoughts that bailing out to a cold bailout rebreather is not going to result in a big CO2 hit… The final bit he focused on was the Save Our Seas campaign. A rich (British?) benefactor is sponsoring just about anything to do with marine conservation. So, if you have a good project idea, UK or Worldwide, bang it in – you might just get it funded!

    The show itself was quite busy – not as big as the NEC one maybe but still quite large. I felt quite stress-free having no need to buy anything. Good to catch up with everyone on the Dive Girl stand and in the bar – sorry if I missed anyone. Good to meet up with Aaron again from Tekstreme and the DFC team. Great to put faces to names as well – nice to meet you Stuart!

    I was very interested in the PSA stand which is the agency some of the UK TDI instructors have migrated to. Dave Crockford, Andy Hayhurst etc where there. I was buying a Hayhurst Box for my YBOD (more on that later) but found the training descriptions interesting. Focussing on the CCR training, you have the standard MOD1 course. This is similar to most agencies training, 45m limit and no deco IIRC. There is talk of allowing Trimix-certed OC divers to dive up to 30% He to the same limits which in my mind is the most sensible thinking I’ve heard in ages. The next MOD (MOD 3 equivalent?) is different. There are three distinct levels – Level 1 takes you to 60m, Level 2 to 75m and Level 3 to 100m. Each Level is a distinct course and you are expected to go off and do some dives before attempting the next Level. Each course was around £300 IIRC and was 4 days(?). Two schools of thought on this. Firstly, this is going to result in much better divers. No doubt about it, regular training is going to keep skills sharp and the gradual progression is going to be much safer. Additionally, if you have no trimix or limited dives, this will appeal as there is no Big Bang approach like TDI. Having spoken to some fellow newbies there are a couple who think this is a great approach and are signing up to it. The second school of thought is that taking £900 off someone Adv Trimix trained with hundreds of deep gas dives is too much. What I didn’t find out was whether this could be taken into account but I suspect it isn’t – you go from Level 1 to Level 3 and that’s it. Training is good – you always learn something and it snaps you out of bad habits. So, if qualified OC Trimix and as no-trimix TDI MOD 1, it may pay to do TDI MOD 3 to get the Insurance and then do the PSA Levels every 6-12 months as revision/top-up training. Best of both worlds? Or worst? It would be interesting to hear what others at MOD1 think…

    I caught the end of Louise T. (Trewavas)’s talk on her Inspo diving. Very nice to hear of someone who isn’t completely anal about the technical aspects of rebreather diving! Enjoyed the talk – quite controversial but refreshing. The next talk was due to be Bob Howell on making a rebreather. Unfortunately it seems that Bob isn’t well and couldn’t make it. I hope he gets well soon and all that. It would have been the highlight of the day for me and the others who were looking forward to it but you can’t have everything. So instead, we went up to see what Jarrod Jablonski had to say for himself at the GUE/DIR talk. I am pleased to say this didn’t have me foaming at the mouth and Jablonksi appeared to be a committed guy and perfectly reasonable. Did anybody else spot the irony of him promoting Kaizen though? This is a Japanese term used a great deal in Manufacturing. Loosely, it is concerned with continual improvement. Hard to square that with a rigid regime you cannot vary from… ;) He highlighted several times the fact that Doing It Right didn’t mean everyone else was Doing It Wrong! Very diplomatic, and as non-DIR myself, quite welcome and I warmed to him for that. He showed some fantastic slides of the caving systems – did anyone find out why the vis had changed BTW? Now, I was itching to get downstairs to the show so I may not have been concentrating as I should...but I did find the guy a little dull after a while and didn’t really learn anything new – I’m afraid I bailed out after twenty minutes… No disrespect intended though, I just needed to be elsewhere.

    So, onto the bars and a very good evening! Great company and nice to catch up with old friends, and to make some new ones.

    My favourite moment was watching Martin Parker flinch as AM went up to say hello…. LOL! :D

    And then began a crap 4 hour drive home…
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  2. #2
    New Member DalesDiver is an unknown quantity at this point DalesDiver's Avatar
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    Hi John,
    If a diver with mixed gas experience comes to PSA, he will be evaluated on dives to see his skill level and experience level before a decision is made on what level he/she will be certified to, the main point is, you may have all the skills on o/c, but closed is a different ball game, therfore you will be taken into the program and evaluated accordingly.

    So f a highly qualified gas diver (plenty of gas dives logged), came to do mixed gas c/c they could come into an area within their experience level. If the diver in question had 100m experience and was certified, they could work through to the 100m c/c ticket in one long hit, with a minimum of six c/c dives, with at least two in the 80m range in UK, because of HSE restrictions, anywhere else those dives would have to be to a minimum of 97m.

    Andy Hayhurst PSA Instructor Trainer

    DalesDivers

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    PRISM Topaz & Sport KISS

    (still owned) MK15

    Thanks for the report from the show, sounds like it worth going to.

    I'm suprised to hear that C.C.R. wasn't very forthcoming with technical info as they were just that at DEMA. I got a pretty thorough teardown of the rig and don't remember any questions being unanswered or evaded.

    AP is usually quite good with presentations, and I would like to catch one given by M.P. I agree the smaller size makes the Evo a very attractive package, though I still think the price is nasty. Even with the thermo stack, a good idea and usefull tool if you recognize the limitations. Feedback on that from Dave Thompson has been quite good. Be carefull with the bit about female techies, though, a few have done pretty amazing dives with rigs bigger than the Inspo. ;)

    The Meg and Prism will only be viable alternatives in Europe when they get CE certified. Until then they'll only be niche products due to restricted availability and training. Personally I like either one better than APDs offerings, but that is purely a personal preference. Some say poorly a personal preference. ;)

    PSA is Hal Watts' outfit, am I correct?
    I'll ponder that part of your report a bit before replyinng, if at all. Not being mix certified I can't speak from experience ... .

    In regards to Jarrod Jablonski, I had e-mail contact a couple of times after meeting him two years ago. He also genuinly suprised me with the converstion we had. I truly wish more of the DIR crowd would take him an example and listen to all he has to say. Very intresting guy that I ejoyed to meet.

    My favourite moment was watching Martin Parker flinch as AnneMarie went up to say hello…. LOL! :D
    Did anybody get a picture of that? Please? :D

  4. #4
    Custom Title Allowed! HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM is just really nice HelenM's Avatar
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    John,

    LOL! You made the RBW newsletter. You are such a dull-and-worthy boy scout

    One point I'd like to just pick you up on though:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon
    I think the smaller format was a shrewd business move as it opens the market up to the smaller and/or more travel-oriented diver, which of course includes the female techies.
    Ahem. All the female techies? Brave words, short-arse

    Show was interesting... had a very interesting chat with Andy Hayhurst about the new PSA CCR courses. Have to admit that I fall into the camp who thoroughly likes the idea of a staggered mix qualification - perhaps that's because I haven't done it OC, but this structure fits with my plan to have a steady progression in terms of depth... (and yes, BTW, you are correct, each of the mix course levels is four days). Had a pleasant chat with Hal Watts on that stand as well - really good to see that all the top brass turned out in force for LIDS, hope that that level of commitment to the UK continues....

    I also spent a fair bit of time stroking the lovely shineeeey things on the AP stand - my Inspiration trydive is now less than two weeks away, so it was good to get an idea of leadtimes for units (assuming that I will want one)....

    Random bit of breather info I gleaned was from AP - the shell of the Inspo is being ever so slightly re-engineered to follow the format of the Evolution in terms of the retaining clips and the mounting panel down the side... apparently only a matter of weeks away...

    Also had a very interesting convo with Aaron from Tekstreme who was raving about the Meg...

    'Twas good to catch up with any number of familar faces... especially the DFC crew... Gutted that I missed this though:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon
    My favourite moment was watching Martin Parker flinch as AnneMarie went up to say hello…. LOL!
    ... and as far as I am aware there is no photographic evidence

    Cheers,
    H

  5. #5
    Decodiver
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    Quote Originally Posted by DalesDiver
    Hi John,
    If a diver with mixed gas experience comes to PSA, he will be evaluated on dives to see his skill level and experience level before a decision is made on what level he/she will be certified to, the main point is, you may have all the skills on o/c, but closed is a different ball game, therfore you will be taken into the program and evaluated accordingly.

    So f a highly qualified gas diver (plenty of gas dives logged), came to do mixed gas c/c they could come into an area within their experience level. If the diver in question had 100m experience and was certified, they could work through to the 100m c/c ticket in one long hit, with a minimum of six c/c dives, with at least two in the 80m range in UK, because of HSE restrictions, anywhere else those dives would have to be to a minimum of 97m.

    Andy Hayhurst PSA Instructor Trainer

    DalesDivers
    Hi Andy,

    Good to have your outlook and experience on this forum mate.

    I guess because I'm your mate I am biased, but your input will be of great use.

    cheers

    Dave :D :D

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    RBW Member DoubleTop is an unknown quantity at this point DoubleTop's Avatar
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    from those who I know that go to dive shows, and a couple of locals did, the question they always seem to dodge :p

    SO then, how much did you spend ???

    DT.

  7. #7
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by DalesDiver
    Hi John,
    If a diver with mixed gas experience comes to PSA, he will be evaluated on dives to see his skill level and experience level before a decision is made on what level he/she will be certified to, the main point is, you may have all the skills on o/c, but closed is a different ball game, therfore you will be taken into the program and evaluated accordingly.

    So f a highly qualified gas diver (plenty of gas dives logged), came to do mixed gas c/c they could come into an area within their experience level. If the diver in question had 100m experience and was certified, they could work through to the 100m c/c ticket in one long hit, with a minimum of six c/c dives, with at least two in the 80m range in UK, because of HSE restrictions, anywhere else those dives would have to be to a minimum of 97m.

    Andy Hayhurst PSA Instructor Trainer

    DalesDivers
    Thanks for clearing that up, Andy! Sorry, we only got a brief time to chat because of the crowds round your stand, so I wasn't too clear on this point. :D

    Great stand, by the way! Seemed to attract a disproportionate amount of people too - I remember looking round at one point and seeing people's names on tags which are also on most of my dive manuals and books at home... Is there a PSA website yet?

    Really pleased with my new Box, by the way - I'll get it rigged this weekend and you can tell me what I've done wrong the weekend after... ;)

  8. #8
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    Talking Female techies...

    Be carefull with the bit about female techies, though, a few have done pretty amazing dives with rigs bigger than the Inspo.
    and...

    Ahem. All the female techies? Brave words, short-arse
    Er...before I get lynched, can I clear this one up? :) In my straw poll of three girls going onto a rebreather, two said they were going to an Evo because the Inspo was uncomfortably large for them. And because it was a great rig, mind! :D

    I think a smaller footprint is a shrewd move - it opens up a market for those wishing to travel and those for whom an Inspo is over-kill or too large (male or female!).

    And this doesn't mean that girls (or boys!) haven't done amazing things on bigger units!!!



    Foot removed from mouth, or is more grovelling required?

    :D

  9. #9
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    Talking The Female Techies Are Watching You Closely

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon

    Er...before I get lynched, can I clear this one up?
    .....Foot removed from mouth, or is more grovelling required?

    :D
    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for your prompt response. I shall take you off the International Women's Network hit list pending investigation.

    Please be aware that you remain on probation and further transgression will result in the severest possible penalties. The IWN Management Committee would like to suggest that in order to avoid this fate you undertake a "Learn Diplomacy with Mother" course as a matter of some urgency.

    Kindest regards,
    H

    ( ;) :D )
    P.S. Good write up.

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