[Rasmus]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I think the Danish military have bought some Ouroboros's incidentally, Rasmus should be able to confirm.

That´s correct that I have sold and trained the Danish Navy on the Ouroboros

Best

RL

[iain-hsm]

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

But FYI, it is my understanding that the USN did actually buy/pay for some Prisms and some were supposedly used at the start of combat operations in Iraq in 03'. -Andy

That’s a very clear and useful distinction you have made.
At a guess most of us reading these posts would think of “military diving rebreathers” as combat equipment, (myself included). However what is missing in some of these posts is the distinction of rebreathers used within the military between combat use, or training use, or evaluation use against those used simply for recreational purposes.

That being the case we should therefore make a distinction between the combat equipment and use by the military and equipment used by the military but for recreational purposes, and ignore the “smoke and mirror” diversions.

In that case it is only fair to ask if the Ouroboros posted as (quote)“sold and trained the Danish Navy”, for what purpose, combat or recreation?

Further that being the case ADV Inspiration should also be added as “used” by the military in so far that Joint Services use them with HM forces for recreational advanced divers within the “joint services” of the Army Navy and Air Force.

Having now read some of the web sites appertaining from some of the posters in this forum I see direct involvement with this product in both selling and training. I can see now the “vested” interest of each of the members. As sellers and trainers of this and other products I can understand how uncomfortable my questions can be and for that I am sorry. I’m afraid it’s a small price to pay in having to answer questions, I have more.

I trust members of the forum can clearly see these distinctions, and divisions. However “difficult” I can be.

Regarding the mouthpiece if someone could explain the geometry, and if the designed WOB is within the CE, hence in pure mechanical size it is bigger than other alternatives? (my original post 12) or not? Iain

[iain-hsm]

Mike.
In response to your plethora of a post I did a Google search on what was originally said about this product and the word it isn’t military as I stated, it’s navy. So for the benefit of clarity direct from the horses mouth or should that be snakes tongue, so to speak the first ever mention of “navy” was in March 2005 enclosed.

Department of Trade and Industry (North East)
CELEBRATION OF NORTH EAST INNOVATION AT RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AWARDS CEREMONY
Some of the North East's most creative business ideas will be recognised at the Research and Development Awards ceremony, sponsored by the DTI, to be held at Beamish Hall, County Durham today (Monday 7 March 2005)
A total of £1.7 million of grants have been awarded to the 17 winning companies who impressed the judges with their innovation and entrepreneurial spirit.
The diverse collection of business ideas developed by North East companies includes:
* a breathing apparatus device for divers which reuses unused oxygen in each breath - so reducing the gas supply needed and extending the diving time.
* The development of an antibody to treat human respiratory syncytical virus(RSV), a major cause of disease in infants and children worldwide.
* software package that provides the typical non-technical computer user with automatic self-healing capabilities as well as user-friendly information
Case Study
Kevin Gurr Delta P Technology - Gateshead
A revolutionary new way of breathing under water is being developed by a Gateshead company - one of the winners of this year's awards.
Kevin Gurr, of Delta P Technology on the Team Valley in Gateshead, has been awarded £77,000 of his total project cost of £192,000 to develop his "Rebreather" - a special device enabling divers to re-use the last part of each breath giving them more time under water - and a much safer dive.
A keen diver himself Kevin has explored the wreck of the Titanic sister ship, the Britanic, in Greece.
"On dives like that the time you have in the water, and the depths you can go without fear of anything going wrong, is crucial," he said.
"I wanted to develop a system which would give people a longer and safer dive - and we have achieved just that."
Kevin's "Rebreather" gives divers an average seven and a half hours in any depths compared to the seven and a half minutes provided by a single tank at 20 metres.
"The rebreathing idea has been around in the navy in a simple mechanical format for some time now," explained Kevin, "but we wanted to bring it into the 21st century by adding sophisticated computer technology.
"Our new system should be on the market in just a few months."
Kevin's "Rebreather" should be popular with the police and the navy but also recreational divers wanting more time under water and increased safety.
Test dives have been carried out in depths of 130 metres but the finished produce will take divers down to 200 metres.

[Johnny Christensen]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rasmus)

That´s correct that I have sold and trained the Danish Navy on the Ouroboros

Best

RL

But...you should add that it was the civilian types. Used for evaluation of building a more mobile deepdiving setup when doing salvage or searching.

[Nad]

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Regarding the mouthpiece if someone could explain the geometry, and if the designed WOB is within the CE, hence in pure mechanical size it is bigger than other alternatives? (my original post 12) or not? Iain

Iain, if you have so many doubt and so many questions, why the hell you don't call or go to the factory and spent half a day with one of the guys there, maybe also Kevin. Then you could maybe post here what you discovered.

Did you ever realize that there's no unit out there yet and the only two around had the old BOV design?

Maybe with a drawing will be clearer...

[Decodiver]

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

At a guess most of us reading these posts would think of “military diving rebreathers” as combat equipment, (myself included).

I think a rebreather (in military terms) is just a way of getting to and from work, just like a parachute is, albeit that you can't use a parachute for the journey home.

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Having now read some of the web sites appertaining from some of the posters in this forum I see direct involvement with this product in both selling and training. I can see now the “vested” interest of each of the members. As sellers and trainers of this and other products I can understand how uncomfortable my questions can be and for that I am sorry. I’m afraid it’s a small price to pay in having to answer questions, I have more.

I have no problem with answering any questions that I can Iain, however as I am not the manufacturer, nor do I have my unit yet, I am perhaps not the best person, why not ask Kev? Also you do not have to check my website to know that I sell the Ouroboros or the Sentinel, rather just look at my signature at the end of each post. None of your questions make me uncomfortable at all, note I have no comment on the BOV, I don't like BOVs generally, but will make my mind up on this one when the Sentinel arrives.

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

So for the benefit of clarity direct from the horses mouth or should that be snakes tongue

Perhaps this is a Freudian slip and an indicator of where your rancour comes from, maybe you should address your problems with the person concerned yourself?

I've always found your posts interesting, but I am still unsure of what you are trying to do here?

Ciao,

Dave Cooper.

[Nad]

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Having now read some of the web sites appertaining from some of the posters in this forum I see direct involvement with this product in both selling and training. I can see now the “vested” interest of each of the members. As sellers and trainers of this and other products I can understand how uncomfortable my questions can be and for that I am sorry. I’m afraid it’s a small price to pay in having to answer questions, I have more.

It is not a problem of the questions about a specific unit. The problem is your insistence on something, and as someone already wrote, maybe with a littlebit of rage or hate or whatever personal you feel.

Doubt and question are welcome, also negative advice if we can build something positive with them. But I think here we are far beyond this purpose.

Finally if someone sell or train on something maybe is because he did some evaluations also on other products, and not just financial evaluations...

Hope this help.

Nad

[Drmike]

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

Mike.
In response to your plethora of a post I did a Google search on what was originally said about this product and the word it isn’t military as I stated, it’s navy. So for the benefit of clarity direct from the horses mouth or should that be snakes tongue, so to speak the first ever mention of “navy” was in March 2005 enclosed.

Department of Trade and Industry (North East)
CELEBRATION OF NORTH EAST INNOVATION AT RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AWARDS CEREMONY
Some of the North East's most creative business ideas will be recognised at the Research and Development Awards ceremony, sponsored by the DTI, to be held at Beamish Hall, County Durham today (Monday 7 March 2005)
A total of £1.7 million of grants have been awarded to the 17 winning companies who impressed the judges with their innovation and entrepreneurial spirit.
The diverse collection of business ideas developed by North East companies includes:
* a breathing apparatus device for divers which reuses unused oxygen in each breath - so reducing the gas supply needed and extending the diving time.
* The development of an antibody to treat human respiratory syncytical virus(RSV), a major cause of disease in infants and children worldwide.
* software package that provides the typical non-technical computer user with automatic self-healing capabilities as well as user-friendly information
Case Study
Kevin Gurr Delta P Technology - Gateshead
A revolutionary new way of breathing under water is being developed by a Gateshead company - one of the winners of this year's awards.
Kevin Gurr, of Delta P Technology on the Team Valley in Gateshead, has been awarded £77,000 of his total project cost of £192,000 to develop his "Rebreather" - a special device enabling divers to re-use the last part of each breath giving them more time under water - and a much safer dive.
A keen diver himself Kevin has explored the wreck of the Titanic sister ship, the Britanic, in Greece.
"On dives like that the time you have in the water, and the depths you can go without fear of anything going wrong, is crucial," he said.
"I wanted to develop a system which would give people a longer and safer dive - and we have achieved just that."
Kevin's "Rebreather" gives divers an average seven and a half hours in any depths compared to the seven and a half minutes provided by a single tank at 20 metres.
"The rebreathing idea has been around in the navy in a simple mechanical format for some time now," explained Kevin, "but we wanted to bring it into the 21st century by adding sophisticated computer technology.
"Our new system should be on the market in just a few months."
Kevin's "Rebreather" should be popular with the police and the navy but also recreational divers wanting more time under water and increased safety.
Test dives have been carried out in depths of 130 metres but the finished produce will take divers down to 200 metres.

So just so we are clear.

Your holding up the above comment (that was actually written by a reporter not 'the snake' as you so unbiasly put it) as proof that the Sentinel was designed for military use primarily.

1) The report was talking about the Ouroborous
2) Nobody said the Ouroborous wasnt presented to the Military
3) The reporter was right. kevins rebreather was popular with the navy, as well as recreational divers...afterall both Navy and recreational divers have bought them.
4) So what? what does ANY of this prove or matter?

I dont care if the unit was designed for father christmases little helpers, its still one if not the most capable unit out there.

[Drmike]

Quote: (Originally Posted by iain-hsm)

That being the case we should therefore make a distinction between the combat equipment and use by the military and equipment used by the military but for recreational purposes, and ignore the “smoke and mirror” diversions.

In that case it is only fair to ask if the Ouroboros posted as (quote)“sold and trained the Danish Navy”, for what purpose, combat or recreation?

who gives a crap?

Quote:

Regarding the mouthpiece if someone could explain the geometry, and if the designed WOB is within the CE, hence in pure mechanical size it is bigger than other alternatives? (my original post 12) or not? Iain

why dont you ask Kevin? Obviously it has to meet CE WOB req.

[Drmike]

Here are the facts:


The ouroboros was never designed for the military specifically. An EOD version was built and tested but was never offered to anyone.

The ouroboros is used by the Danish Navy on operations (as far as we know) in its' standard form.

The Ouroboros was offerred to the RN. It was not rejected, they considered CCRBs support infrastructure too small for a multi-million £ contract with a 10 year life.

The Sentinel was not designed as a military rebreather and has never been sold to the military. The USN has seen units but currently that is as far as it goes.

There will be an EOD version of the Sentinel in development for this year so this may change.

There are certain enhancements in the Sentinel that although they give required improvement (for the target market) in one area they reduce performance (over Ouroborous) in another. This is the case with Sentinel. It is designed for a different user than the Ouroborous