What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why?

4ster · 13th December 2007, 17:25

I dive a Dolphin with a Shearwater GF and a TecMe 3 cell housing.

My Drager OxyGauge drove me nuts, I never trusted what it was telling me. For my own piece of mind I felt I needed at least 2 cells in the loop as a reality check. I wanted an integrated computer and liked the Aladin, but felt the Aladin/Oxy2 has fading support by UWatec. The Shearwater/TecMe combo has worked flawlessly so far (about a year).

The Shearwater of course does not have an SCR mode. The display shows PO2 in the loop only. It keeps track of my deco obligation, but since the PO2 in the loop varies with depth the Time To Surface calculation when there is a decompression obligation is under estimated. That is fine for me since I don't use the Dolphin for deco diving.

Hope this helps.

***caveseeker7*** · 13th December 2007, 19:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

hello
mounting cells inside a breathing bag, without proper fixation for the cells and no possibility to avoid moister on the cell faces, is always difficult, and never gives perfect results.

I agree, never thought of it as a particularly good solution. Simple yes, but not sound. The protector that N@90 makes should help at least with the direct contact issue.

Another problem with it happened to a friend of mind, the plug came off during the dive. Joe Dituri also reported that problem some years ago, the moving bag can put the port into a position where pressure opens the plug. That in and by itself is a good reason not to use them for encased counterlungs, no matter how convenient they are.

pete611 · 13th December 2007, 23:54

Hi...I dive a Drager Dolphin With a Kiss Single Display With no problem, pay $300.00. i uset to have a oxygauge Flood it two times,use a uwatec oxy 2 no good for the money.

Icejon · 14th December 2007, 16:53

Thanks guys, All of you have given me so much help. I am leaning towards the azimuth specific 3 cell housing from Tecme. I was thinking about buying it now but the dollar is so weak vs the euro. Hoping that will change around january. I would like to wait. Then I was thinking about using the two cable ports on the housing and attaching 2 of the KISS simple po2 displays. There is a school out here that teaches KISS, and I am sure someone would be selling those things 2ndhand when upgrading to computers. In the future, I would get a proper 3 cell monitoring display and use all the cells and a computer on the other cable. Would this work?

***caveseeker7*** · 14th December 2007, 17:53

Basically yes, although it does depend a bit on the electronics you're using.
I do remember that the original Shearwater GF for example didn't work with the Subsea Systems pO2 monitor, a shame as both are top notch products. This may have changed by now, and when the time comes I would check with the respective manufacturers if they're aware of any problems, or if they have any knowledge what works with their products.

***caveseeker7*** · 14th December 2007, 18:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by kevin stone)

Don't forget the Hammer Head secondary it has a hud "Diva" and now has deco as a option.

I did, I'm embarrassed to say. Maybe because Juergensen Marine hasn't been advertising it much and it's still a fairly new offer. After you pointed me to the error of my ways I PMed Kevin Juergensen, though, inquiring about it.

Here's Kevin's reply:

Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude)

Hey,

You can get the HH Secondary with or without deco. In either config, it runs the DIVA, and has Battery Monitoring, Stack Timer, and selectable HUD Modes (ppO2 or User SetPoint).

You can buy it with a Cable and a wiring diagram for making your own, or you can buy it integrated into one of our systems.

The HH was designed to be used with R-22D's or equivalent. We have adapted them for higher mV cells (R10DS) but not the K1's as yet.

Depending upon the config and parts, we usually sell the Secondary for around $1395.

Happy holidays!

Kevin.

The high output option is unique as far as I know, making it the only cell-integrated deco computing option for MK-series and PRISM divers.

Also very cool are stack timer, DIVA and choice of HUD display modes, either the Smithers Code that signals the actual pO2 value (as has been adapted to the ISC and Shearwater HUDs) or the old green=good, red(and amber)=is bad.

Last but not least, the Hammerhead's HUD is a repeater of the display, like DeltaP's URM, whereas the optional HUD for the Shearwater is an independent display with its own battery and calibration.

Hope now I've got them all.

bgpartri · 14th December 2007, 19:46

Stefan,

I am happy to say that Jason and I had extensive technical discussions before the Pursuit came out. The Shearwater Pursuit works fine with the Subsea products and we have at least two users using them.

Bruce

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

I do remember that the original Shearwater GF for example didn't work with the Subsea Systems pO2 monitor, a shame as both are top notch products. This may have changed by now, and when the time comes I would check with the respective manufacturers if they're aware of any problems, or if they have any knowledge what works with their products.

bgpartri · 14th December 2007, 20:03

Mark,

Yes I am actually. I find it a lot harder to find the time lately, but I try.

I can't see ever having the capability to randomly change the GF whenever you want during a dive. I would present a nightmare to verify and there would be no benchmarks to use since none of the desktop programs allow it.

The biggest problem is that there is no data on what it would mean to change your GF in the middle of a decompression. The math is simple, it's the actual effect on your body that is completely unknown.

The other issue is that during a bailout, the last thing I want to do is corrupt our beautufully simple bailout with extra settings.

The computer will always give you an actual ceiling based on the supersaturation. If you go up farther, you will off-gas faster. If you have decided the 85 is a safe surfacing value for you and you have gas left, why would you want to increase your risk to surface? If you have no gas left, you need to surface regardless of what the computer says.

It might be possible to convince me to allow a different GF for OC that would be preset before the dive. I'm not saying I'll do it, but I would consider that.

Could you show me some profiles and the effect it would have? In other words - what specifically would the benefit be?

Bruce

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Are you listening Bruce

ATB
Mark Chase

heyydude · 14th December 2007, 20:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by kevin stone)

Don't forget the Hammer Head secondary
it has a hud "Diva" and now has deco as a option.
Have fun
Kevin

And you can bail out to OC and it does the calc for you - has so since it's inception...

And you can change GF on the fly. It's very simple, and (dare I say it?) Elegant....

Kevin.

diverklondike · 15th December 2007, 02:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude)

And you can bail out to OC and it does the calc for you - has so since it's inception...

And you can change GF on the fly. It's very simple, and (dare I say it?) Elegant....

Kevin.

Dare you also say inovative... Simple reason for it...

In a perfect world I would much rather use a GF that drives deep stops...

If the S*(#*_*&*^& hits the fan and there is a reason that I need to get shallow quicker... I do have help sorting that out either via CCR or OC. It may cost me a lot more deco in the long run but at least I can make that choice with some help sorting the options out...

Sorry for the tangent here but this is one of the many reasons that I am a HH fan.

Dive safe...

Mark

13th December 2007, 17:25	#11 (permalink)
4ster Steve Sprague Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Arlington, Washington Posts: 294	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? I dive a Dolphin with a Shearwater GF and a TecMe 3 cell housing. My Drager OxyGauge drove me nuts, I never trusted what it was telling me. For my own piece of mind I felt I needed at least 2 cells in the loop as a reality check. I wanted an integrated computer and liked the Aladin, but felt the Aladin/Oxy2 has fading support by UWatec. The Shearwater/TecMe combo has worked flawlessly so far (about a year). The Shearwater of course does not have an SCR mode. The display shows PO2 in the loop only. It keeps track of my deco obligation, but since the PO2 in the loop varies with depth the Time To Surface calculation when there is a decompression obligation is under estimated. That is fine for me since I don't use the Dolphin for deco diving. Hope this helps. __________________ Steve "My problem is that I have trouble reconciling my gross habits with my net income." Errol Flynn
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13th December 2007, 19:36	#12 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,451	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) hello mounting cells inside a breathing bag, without proper fixation for the cells and no possibility to avoid moister on the cell faces, is always difficult, and never gives perfect results. I agree, never thought of it as a particularly good solution. Simple yes, but not sound. The protector that N@90 makes should help at least with the direct contact issue. Another problem with it happened to a friend of mind, the plug came off during the dive. Joe Dituri also reported that problem some years ago, the moving bag can put the port into a position where pressure opens the plug. That in and by itself is a good reason not to use them for encased counterlungs, no matter how convenient they are. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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13th December 2007, 23:54	#13 (permalink)
pete611 RBD one dive at a time... Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 223	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Hi...I dive a Drager Dolphin With a Kiss Single Display With no problem, pay $300.00. i uset to have a oxygauge Flood it two times,use a uwatec oxy 2 no good for the money. __________________ Warm Water Only For Me Please.. ><))))°> ><))))°> WARNING: the rebreather is not broken is a Dolphin!!!
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14th December 2007, 16:53	#14 (permalink)
Icejon New Member Current Rebreather/s: Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 24	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Thanks guys, All of you have given me so much help. I am leaning towards the azimuth specific 3 cell housing from Tecme. I was thinking about buying it now but the dollar is so weak vs the euro. Hoping that will change around january. I would like to wait. Then I was thinking about using the two cable ports on the housing and attaching 2 of the KISS simple po2 displays. There is a school out here that teaches KISS, and I am sure someone would be selling those things 2ndhand when upgrading to computers. In the future, I would get a proper 3 cell monitoring display and use all the cells and a computer on the other cable. Would this work? Last edited by Icejon : 14th December 2007 at 17:24.
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14th December 2007, 17:53	#15 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,451	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Basically yes, although it does depend a bit on the electronics you're using. I do remember that the original Shearwater GF for example didn't work with the Subsea Systems pO2 monitor, a shame as both are top notch products. This may have changed by now, and when the time comes I would check with the respective manufacturers if they're aware of any problems, or if they have any knowledge what works with their products. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

14th December 2007, 18:10	#16 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,451	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Quote: (Originally Posted by kevin stone) Don't forget the Hammer Head secondary it has a hud "Diva" and now has deco as a option. I did, I'm embarrassed to say. Maybe because Juergensen Marine hasn't been advertising it much and it's still a fairly new offer. After you pointed me to the error of my ways I PMed Kevin Juergensen, though, inquiring about it. Here's Kevin's reply: Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude) Hey, You can get the HH Secondary with or without deco. In either config, it runs the DIVA, and has Battery Monitoring, Stack Timer, and selectable HUD Modes (ppO2 or User SetPoint). You can buy it with a Cable and a wiring diagram for making your own, or you can buy it integrated into one of our systems. The HH was designed to be used with R-22D's or equivalent. We have adapted them for higher mV cells (R10DS) but not the K1's as yet. Depending upon the config and parts, we usually sell the Secondary for around $1395. Happy holidays! Kevin. The high output option is unique as far as I know, making it the only cell-integrated deco computing option for MK-series and PRISM divers. Also very cool are stack timer, DIVA and choice of HUD display modes, either the Smithers Code that signals the actual pO2 value (as has been adapted to the ISC and Shearwater HUDs) or the old green=good, red(and amber)=is bad. Last but not least, the Hammerhead's HUD is a repeater of the display, like DeltaP's URM, whereas the optional HUD for the Shearwater is an independent display with its own battery and calibration. Hope now I've got them all. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

14th December 2007, 19:46	#17 (permalink)
bgpartri Rebreather Zealot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Titan Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 414	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Stefan, I am happy to say that Jason and I had extensive technical discussions before the Pursuit came out. The Shearwater Pursuit works fine with the Subsea products and we have at least two users using them. Bruce Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) I do remember that the original Shearwater GF for example didn't work with the Subsea Systems pO2 monitor, a shame as both are top notch products. This may have changed by now, and when the time comes I would check with the respective manufacturers if they're aware of any problems, or if they have any knowledge what works with their products. __________________ http://www.shearwaterresearch.com Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment. Last edited by bgpartri : 15th December 2007 at 01:14. Reason: Spelling
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14th December 2007, 20:03	#18 (permalink)
bgpartri Rebreather Zealot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Titan Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 414	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Mark, Yes I am actually. I find it a lot harder to find the time lately, but I try. I can't see ever having the capability to randomly change the GF whenever you want during a dive. I would present a nightmare to verify and there would be no benchmarks to use since none of the desktop programs allow it. The biggest problem is that there is no data on what it would mean to change your GF in the middle of a decompression. The math is simple, it's the actual effect on your body that is completely unknown. The other issue is that during a bailout, the last thing I want to do is corrupt our beautufully simple bailout with extra settings. The computer will always give you an actual ceiling based on the supersaturation. If you go up farther, you will off-gas faster. If you have decided the 85 is a safe surfacing value for you and you have gas left, why would you want to increase your risk to surface? If you have no gas left, you need to surface regardless of what the computer says. It might be possible to convince me to allow a different GF for OC that would be preset before the dive. I'm not saying I'll do it, but I would consider that. Could you show me some profiles and the effect it would have? In other words - what specifically would the benefit be? Bruce Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Are you listening Bruce ATB Mark Chase __________________ http://www.shearwaterresearch.com Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment.
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14th December 2007, 20:20	#19 (permalink)
heyydude King of the Geeks Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Addison, Pennsylvania Posts: 358	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Quote: (Originally Posted by kevin stone) Don't forget the Hammer Head secondary it has a hud "Diva" and now has deco as a option. Have fun Kevin And you can bail out to OC and it does the calc for you - has so since it's inception... And you can change GF on the fly. It's very simple, and (dare I say it?) Elegant.... Kevin.
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15th December 2007, 02:36	#20 (permalink)
diverklondike Just one of the Peasants Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,613	Re: What PO2 Monitoring Unit do You Use and Why? Quote: (Originally Posted by heyydude) And you can bail out to OC and it does the calc for you - has so since it's inception... And you can change GF on the fly. It's very simple, and (dare I say it?) Elegant.... Kevin. Dare you also say inovative... Simple reason for it... In a perfect world I would much rather use a GF that drives deep stops... If the S(#_&^& hits the fan and there is a reason that I need to get shallow quicker... I do have help sorting that out either via CCR or OC. It may cost me a lot more deco in the long run but at least I can make that choice with some help sorting the options out... Sorry for the tangent here but this is one of the many reasons that I am a HH fan. Dive safe... Mark
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