Dangerous Azimuth scrubber

***caveseeker7*** · 8th December 2007, 18:22

Hi Alessandra,

welcome to Rebreather World, and thank you for joining.

Your reply is much appreciated, as this is a serious flaw in OMG's manufacturing and quality control procedure. Good to know that this will be brought to their attention, and an effort is made to identify the batches concerned.

Hope you'll stick around after this issue has been solved, we have several manufacturers or their reps here at Rebreather World.

**Dave Sutton** · 8th December 2007, 19:07

Only could check 2 of the three of my scrubbers... one rig is sitting up in Rhode Island and I'm down at the LDSOH for a week. I'll retrieve it later.

Good news: Both of the ones depicted are OK.

More news:

Both are somewhat different from each other. One is substantially longer than the other (the earlier one is longer). One uses the SS end cap and the other a synthentic (Delrin?) end cap. One one you can VERY clearly see the circumferential weld from the exterior, on the other you cannot (but the second one tests fine).

Advice:

*Presence* of the visible weld means your scrubber is OK. It's fully welded.

*Absense* of the weld means that the water test is required. The one shown tests OK.

I'll grab the third scrubber later this week when I get back to the boat and will report.

Dave

MHD · 9th December 2007, 19:08

Yep. mine is the old style longer scrubber with the spot welds. You can just see the spots welds externally if you look carefully. They appear externally as 5 1.5 cm long raised lines on the surface of the scrubber.

I did get 2 hits with the unit Overseas as Rick mentioned and on that trip I forgot the filling aid that set the height and probably over filled the scrubber, resulting in a slight deformation of the end plate mentioned. I also was using a very fine sorb that blocked the mesh holes, that resulted in increased resistance to the normal gas flow, resulting in a bypass route being more attractive to the gas. End result two scary CO2 hits.
At least I know why the hits came on so fast now.

Mine fails the water test very badly. One point the water pours through. Looking at how bad it is I suggest the bottom has been deformed over time.

I have pretty much parked my unit since the hits for various reasons.
For the record mine is a 1999 Mares sold unit that came to Australia via England (came with a guy who emigrated). There is no serial number on the unit.

Cant say I am impressed, I picked the Azi for supposedly the construction quality of the scrubber. To find it so badly flawed in a life threatening way really pisses me off.

Matt

**Dave Sutton** · 10th December 2007, 19:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD)

I have pretty much parked my unit since the hits for various reasons.
For the record mine is a 1999 Mares sold unit that came to Australia via England (came with a guy who emigrated). There is no serial number on the unit.

Cant say I am impressed, I picked the Azi for supposedly the construction quality of the scrubber. To find it so badly flawed in a life threatening way really pisses me off.

Matt

It's a fairly simpley fix, and the MFG seems to be willing to make it right. A 1999 Mares? I wonder if it's the one on my teardowns. I imported a Mares one myself in 2001: A 1999 mfg one that had already been used, did the eval, and then sold it to a guy in England. Only a few were marked Mares. Maybe it's the same one. Small world.

Any others for a sample set?

Dave

jorgey · 11th December 2007, 06:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Any others for a sample set?

Dave

Hi Dave,
Thank you, as allways is your advice very practicall. I checked my Azi and it seems to me to have no problems. It is an OMG from March 2006, and it has wider corrugated hoses as the old ones (I compared it myself with the one of my instructor).
Thank you jaap for posting this problem!
I included 2 photos of my scrubber, the photo of the welding inside the scrubber was little difficult but I think it's clear enough to see how I checked it.
ciao

**Dave Sutton** · 11th December 2007, 11:20

Good photo and good method. To make sure the others see what the photo shows, it is a small mirror (think dentist) put into the port. You can see the continuous weld. Easy inspection.

Once again, if you see the weld on the outside you are OK for sure. If you do not.... it may *still* be OK. Or maybe not... check it!

Dave

Underwaterbear · 11th December 2007, 15:14

Guys,

I'm pretty sure Mares/OMG knew about this potential problem some time ago. When I trained on my old rig (now MHDs) in 2001 my instructor had me do the test you guys have been doing and emphasized strongly to pack the scrubber correctly. I realize now that I didn't understand why we did the water bypass test...I just did it! Hence, the deformation of the plate and subsequent bypass is news to me but it fits that I was trained to check for the defect and never overpack the scrubber. It also fits that in subsequent production the defect was fixed.
Interesting example of why having well trained and experienced instructors, and just following the protocols (even if you don't fully understand why at the time) is important on rbs!

Did anybody else get trained to look for it?

Regards from chilly Seattle!
Andrew

PS: Dave, that rig came to me in virtually brand new condition from an English diver who moved to Australia in 2000...definitely not your teardown rig. I did spent many hours looking at your site back then though!

Hoosier_Dwain · 14th December 2007, 20:27

My Azimuth was manufactured 03-01.
The scrubber is 10 inches long (25 CM).
White delrin lid.
It has a continuous weld, which is obvious without peering inside the exhalation lung port. But I peered inside anyway.

Dwain

Nanni · 24th December 2007, 12:06

Please note as attached file the communication from OMG Italy, Azimuth manufacturer.

Regards

Nanni Neuhold

**Dave Sutton** · 24th December 2007, 14:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nanni)

Please note as attached file the communication from OMG Italy, Azimuth manufacturer.

Regards

Nanni Neuhold

Hi Nanni,

Would you like a technical writer to re-write this in standard English?

Dave

8th December 2007, 18:22	#21 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,280	Re: BDK Sport reply Hi Alessandra, welcome to Rebreather World, and thank you for joining. Your reply is much appreciated, as this is a serious flaw in OMG's manufacturing and quality control procedure. Good to know that this will be brought to their attention, and an effort is made to identify the batches concerned. Hope you'll stick around after this issue has been solved, we have several manufacturers or their reps here at Rebreather World. __________________ Cheers Stefan Be Water, My Friend - Bruce Lee Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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9th December 2007, 19:08	#23 (permalink)
MHD Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane, QLD, Australia Posts: 235	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber Yep. mine is the old style longer scrubber with the spot welds. You can just see the spots welds externally if you look carefully. They appear externally as 5 1.5 cm long raised lines on the surface of the scrubber. I did get 2 hits with the unit Overseas as Rick mentioned and on that trip I forgot the filling aid that set the height and probably over filled the scrubber, resulting in a slight deformation of the end plate mentioned. I also was using a very fine sorb that blocked the mesh holes, that resulted in increased resistance to the normal gas flow, resulting in a bypass route being more attractive to the gas. End result two scary CO2 hits. At least I know why the hits came on so fast now. Mine fails the water test very badly. One point the water pours through. Looking at how bad it is I suggest the bottom has been deformed over time. I have pretty much parked my unit since the hits for various reasons. For the record mine is a 1999 Mares sold unit that came to Australia via England (came with a guy who emigrated). There is no serial number on the unit. Cant say I am impressed, I picked the Azi for supposedly the construction quality of the scrubber. To find it so badly flawed in a life threatening way really pisses me off. Matt
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10th December 2007, 19:31	#24 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber Quote: (Originally Posted by MHD) I have pretty much parked my unit since the hits for various reasons. For the record mine is a 1999 Mares sold unit that came to Australia via England (came with a guy who emigrated). There is no serial number on the unit. Cant say I am impressed, I picked the Azi for supposedly the construction quality of the scrubber. To find it so badly flawed in a life threatening way really pisses me off. Matt It's a fairly simpley fix, and the MFG seems to be willing to make it right. A 1999 Mares? I wonder if it's the one on my teardowns. I imported a Mares one myself in 2001: A 1999 mfg one that had already been used, did the eval, and then sold it to a guy in England. Only a few were marked Mares. Maybe it's the same one. Small world. Any others for a sample set? Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Offline)

11th December 2007, 11:20	#26 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber Good photo and good method. To make sure the others see what the photo shows, it is a small mirror (think dentist) put into the port. You can see the continuous weld. Easy inspection. Once again, if you see the weld on the outside you are OK for sure. If you do not.... it may still be OK. Or maybe not... check it! Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
(Offline)

11th December 2007, 15:14	#27 (permalink)
Underwaterbear A Prismer in Megland Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 164	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber Guys, I'm pretty sure Mares/OMG knew about this potential problem some time ago. When I trained on my old rig (now MHDs) in 2001 my instructor had me do the test you guys have been doing and emphasized strongly to pack the scrubber correctly. I realize now that I didn't understand why we did the water bypass test...I just did it! Hence, the deformation of the plate and subsequent bypass is news to me but it fits that I was trained to check for the defect and never overpack the scrubber. It also fits that in subsequent production the defect was fixed. Interesting example of why having well trained and experienced instructors, and just following the protocols (even if you don't fully understand why at the time) is important on rbs! Did anybody else get trained to look for it? Regards from chilly Seattle! Andrew PS: Dave, that rig came to me in virtually brand new condition from an English diver who moved to Australia in 2000...definitely not your teardown rig. I did spent many hours looking at your site back then though!
(Offline)

14th December 2007, 20:27	#28 (permalink)
Hoosier_Dwain New Member Current Rebreather/s: Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Central Indiana Posts: 4	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber My Azimuth was manufactured 03-01. The scrubber is 10 inches long (25 CM). White delrin lid. It has a continuous weld, which is obvious without peering inside the exhalation lung port. But I peered inside anyway. Dwain Last edited by Hoosier_Dwain : 14th December 2007 at 21:27. Reason: clarity
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24th December 2007, 14:56	#30 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Living on Animal Farm Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,445	Re: Dangerous Azimuth scrubber Quote: (Originally Posted by Nanni) Please note as attached file the communication from OMG Italy, Azimuth manufacturer. Regards Nanni Neuhold Hi Nanni, Would you like a technical writer to re-write this in standard English? Dave __________________ . "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" Professional Small Boy: Never Successfully Cubicled.
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