Need your feed back

Molecular Products Ltd · 16th October 2006, 08:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

Stephan, thanks for joining the fray and being so patient and thorough. I would have to say ditto to what dave said. here in seattle it seems that a very unfortunate trend had begun with safnolime. While i have used safnolime a bit, i have made the switch to sodasorb and learned to put up with a little dust however because the price of safnolime is jumping up and the availability is spotty. Here are some numbers for what i have found available to me. I'm not trying to be a skin flint or insulting to you, but here is what the North West diver has available to him.

The local stores here that carry safnolime have recently raised there prices. A 22lb twin pack is $110 US...that's $210 a keg= $4.75 lb. and to boot, the original kegs are no longer available through most of the suppliers, claiming that they are just no longer available. (compared to bulk internet prices of $145/keg or $3.29/lb incl shipping) These same stores no longer offer sodasorb...so some of the rebreather divers around here are resorting to going in on large palate orders of sodasorb over the internet: a couple of sources offer aprox $91 per 37 lb keg including shipping= $2.45 lb. for palate orders.

I do believe that safnolime is a superior product (better product uniformity, little to no dust, seemingly a bit longer in duration-at least from what i can tell with the temp stick) and don't really have much i would change about it...except for maybe leaving out the dye altogether since it realy can not be trusted unless you are using it with an anesthesia machine, can see it and have a CO2 monitor to safely economize.

so i would have to say that there must be some kind of cornering of the market here that has driven the cost of the product up so much that many folks are switching brands...reducing the number of middlemen would undoubtedly help things. I would be willing to pay 20-30% more for safnolime but not 100% more than sodasorb.

that's my two granules worth,

Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed.

Molecular Products Ltd · 16th October 2006, 08:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Robert Landreth)

Stephen Lyons
Hi Stephan. Thanks for your input. What most affects activation of Sofnolime, Depth, Cold, Co2, What would be the parameters of changing off an active Rebreather to a bailout RB with an inactive scrubber at depth. Would keeping the scrubber warm even though inactive help? At what minimum temp can one just start breathing of a scrubber? Are the smaller grain sizes better for that scenario? (8/12) Thanks.
Robert Landreth

Cold and CO2. CO2 is the reaction so obviously it is a factor. Cold has the most adverse effect on duration. If a scrubber is breathed for several minutes before entering very cold water then the reaction is kick started and you should not encounter many problems apart from some loss of duration. We did have a team last year who used Sofnolime when they swam up inside some icebergs so if you big girls think the great lakes are cold think again.!!

Molecular Products Ltd · 16th October 2006, 08:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by nmanfield)

I live in the Ukraine and all absorbents are imported at huge cost because they are classified as medical equipment which attracts a unbelievably high tax (15 dollars a kilo anyone?!). Any chance it could be rebranded as diving equipment. Also, do you have any distributors in Ukraine (or hungary or Czech).

Also a list of worldwide distributors and instructions on how to order would be helpful.
Welcome and thanks

I will look into the import legislation for you.

In the short term
Snakesub S.R.O.
Pavla Chochousova
obchodb@snakesub.cz
they should be able to help.

Molecular Products Ltd · 18th October 2006, 09:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by babar)

how abouttaking the corosive label off the keg?

Sorry to reply so late. We are looking into the situation just now and are in the process of trying to have the label marked irritant as we think we have found an extension in the letter of the law that would make this possible. I will keep you updated on this and make you aware if we are succesful.

CharlieT · 18th October 2006, 12:28

Stephen

First, thank you for all the replies and info you are giving us. I know you're the manufacturer but we're learning more with you on board.

Can you really produce a soft container of sof that could cope with banging into hard dive equipment in a dry kit bag?

At the moment I put the 4.5k plastic container in my dry kit bag and it copes just fine without the granules being ground into dust!

Still would like a container large enough for 2 scrubber fills.

This plus the sof in my scrubber would give me a good number of hours.

If I need more I'm happy to take 2 of the containers that provide 2 fills each.

Any chance?

Charliet

louisrankin · 18th October 2006, 13:23

When I went to Vancouver a Local diver supplied me with some lime in a one gallon zip lock bag. This worked very well it even survived the flight to Toronto in a soft suitcase.

onetime · 18th October 2006, 13:35

Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin)

When I went to Vancouver a Local diver supplied me with some lime in a one gallon zip lock bag. This worked very well it even survived the flight to Toronto in a soft suitcase.

I've carried it locally in zip loc bags as well with a fair amount of banging with no trouble.

The only reason I brought up the possibility of the manufacturer offering such packaging is that a zip loc bag of white powder may cause some concern with airport security people. Having a "factory sealed" bag with labeling would likely ease many concerns.

Just a thought.

--Paul

gmul · 20th October 2006, 14:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd)

Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed.

Stephen,

Any chance you could confirm the customs commodity code that you use for export ? I have been able to find one - 3824909999 - but don't know if this is correct.

Thanks,
Gary.

Lord M · 20th October 2006, 15:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd)

I am listening to you Charlie and I hear you but we like to reduce our offering on bulky packaging sizes not increase them.
Does the soft packaging idea in exactly the right weight not sound like a hit then.

Well I like the sound of it.

I can understand the 4.5kg packaging, using standard off the shelf packaging is a lot more cost effective then having custom made packaging. It's just a PITA when you need 5kg for 2 fills.

Andy Del · 21st October 2006, 23:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd)

Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed.

FWIW, you may be interested in the going price of sorb in various places. Here in Oz, fine grade goes for around AU$10 / kilo. Buying in bulk can cut it down a few %...

Having used a few different sorbs, MP is just great, so much less dust, easier to pack (fine grade) and I've never had a duration problem. (Note to self, never use Draegersorb 700, EVER!)

Packaging is a bit of a conundrum. I just can't see the logic in having 4.5kg bottles. It's like 600ml milk bottles being close enough to a pint. What about using just 2 or 3 basic sizings, like 5kg, 10kg and 20kg? That way you'd get (just) 2 (4 or 8) fills on a Inspiration or KISS...

cheers

Andy

16th October 2006, 08:13	#51 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) Stephan, thanks for joining the fray and being so patient and thorough. I would have to say ditto to what dave said. here in seattle it seems that a very unfortunate trend had begun with safnolime. While i have used safnolime a bit, i have made the switch to sodasorb and learned to put up with a little dust however because the price of safnolime is jumping up and the availability is spotty. Here are some numbers for what i have found available to me. I'm not trying to be a skin flint or insulting to you, but here is what the North West diver has available to him. The local stores here that carry safnolime have recently raised there prices. A 22lb twin pack is $110 US...that's $210 a keg= $4.75 lb. and to boot, the original kegs are no longer available through most of the suppliers, claiming that they are just no longer available. (compared to bulk internet prices of $145/keg or $3.29/lb incl shipping) These same stores no longer offer sodasorb...so some of the rebreather divers around here are resorting to going in on large palate orders of sodasorb over the internet: a couple of sources offer aprox $91 per 37 lb keg including shipping= $2.45 lb. for palate orders. I do believe that safnolime is a superior product (better product uniformity, little to no dust, seemingly a bit longer in duration-at least from what i can tell with the temp stick) and don't really have much i would change about it...except for maybe leaving out the dye altogether since it realy can not be trusted unless you are using it with an anesthesia machine, can see it and have a CO2 monitor to safely economize. so i would have to say that there must be some kind of cornering of the market here that has driven the cost of the product up so much that many folks are switching brands...reducing the number of middlemen would undoubtedly help things. I would be willing to pay 20-30% more for safnolime but not 100% more than sodasorb. that's my two granules worth, Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed.
(Offline)

16th October 2006, 08:21	#52 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Robert Landreth) Stephen Lyons Hi Stephan. Thanks for your input. What most affects activation of Sofnolime, Depth, Cold, Co2, What would be the parameters of changing off an active Rebreather to a bailout RB with an inactive scrubber at depth. Would keeping the scrubber warm even though inactive help? At what minimum temp can one just start breathing of a scrubber? Are the smaller grain sizes better for that scenario? (8/12) Thanks. Robert Landreth Cold and CO2. CO2 is the reaction so obviously it is a factor. Cold has the most adverse effect on duration. If a scrubber is breathed for several minutes before entering very cold water then the reaction is kick started and you should not encounter many problems apart from some loss of duration. We did have a team last year who used Sofnolime when they swam up inside some icebergs so if you big girls think the great lakes are cold think again.!!
(Offline)

16th October 2006, 08:56	#53 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by nmanfield) I live in the Ukraine and all absorbents are imported at huge cost because they are classified as medical equipment which attracts a unbelievably high tax (15 dollars a kilo anyone?!). Any chance it could be rebranded as diving equipment. Also, do you have any distributors in Ukraine (or hungary or Czech). Also a list of worldwide distributors and instructions on how to order would be helpful. Welcome and thanks I will look into the import legislation for you. In the short term Snakesub S.R.O. Pavla Chochousova obchodb@snakesub.cz they should be able to help.
(Offline)

18th October 2006, 09:48	#54 (permalink)
Molecular Products Ltd New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: UK Posts: 53	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by babar) how abouttaking the corosive label off the keg? Sorry to reply so late. We are looking into the situation just now and are in the process of trying to have the label marked irritant as we think we have found an extension in the letter of the law that would make this possible. I will keep you updated on this and make you aware if we are succesful.
(Offline)

18th October 2006, 12:28	#55 (permalink)
CharlieT Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: London Posts: 449	Re: Need your feed back Stephen First, thank you for all the replies and info you are giving us. I know you're the manufacturer but we're learning more with you on board. Can you really produce a soft container of sof that could cope with banging into hard dive equipment in a dry kit bag? At the moment I put the 4.5k plastic container in my dry kit bag and it copes just fine without the granules being ground into dust! Still would like a container large enough for 2 scrubber fills. This plus the sof in my scrubber would give me a good number of hours. If I need more I'm happy to take 2 of the containers that provide 2 fills each. Any chance? Charliet
(Offline)

18th October 2006, 13:23	#56 (permalink)
louisrankin Póg mo thóin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cambridge Posts: 302	Re: Need your feed back When I went to Vancouver a Local diver supplied me with some lime in a one gallon zip lock bag. This worked very well it even survived the flight to Toronto in a soft suitcase.
(Offline)

18th October 2006, 13:35	#57 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 673	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by louisrankin) When I went to Vancouver a Local diver supplied me with some lime in a one gallon zip lock bag. This worked very well it even survived the flight to Toronto in a soft suitcase. I've carried it locally in zip loc bags as well with a fair amount of banging with no trouble. The only reason I brought up the possibility of the manufacturer offering such packaging is that a zip loc bag of white powder may cause some concern with airport security people. Having a "factory sealed" bag with labeling would likely ease many concerns. Just a thought. --Paul
(Offline)

20th October 2006, 14:39	#58 (permalink)
gmul still learning !! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 23	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd) Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed. Stephen, Any chance you could confirm the customs commodity code that you use for export ? I have been able to find one - 3824909999 - but don't know if this is correct. Thanks, Gary.
(Offline)

20th October 2006, 15:04	#59 (permalink)
Lord M New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Central Cornwall. Posts: 58	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd) I am listening to you Charlie and I hear you but we like to reduce our offering on bulky packaging sizes not increase them. Does the soft packaging idea in exactly the right weight not sound like a hit then. Well I like the sound of it. I can understand the 4.5kg packaging, using standard off the shelf packaging is a lot more cost effective then having custom made packaging. It's just a PITA when you need 5kg for 2 fills.
(Offline)

21st October 2006, 23:12	#60 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 422	Re: Need your feed back Quote: (Originally Posted by Molecular Products Ltd) Thank you for all of your informative and thourough feed back. I am a little embarresed to say that I was not aware that the problem was so exstensive. I can assure you on the other hand that I will be addressing this as a matter of urgency and will keep all of you informed. FWIW, you may be interested in the going price of sorb in various places. Here in Oz, fine grade goes for around AU$10 / kilo. Buying in bulk can cut it down a few %... Having used a few different sorbs, MP is just great, so much less dust, easier to pack (fine grade) and I've never had a duration problem. (Note to self, never use Draegersorb 700, EVER!) Packaging is a bit of a conundrum. I just can't see the logic in having 4.5kg bottles. It's like 600ml milk bottles being close enough to a pint. What about using just 2 or 3 basic sizings, like 5kg, 10kg and 20kg? That way you'd get (just) 2 (4 or 8) fills on a Inspiration or KISS... cheers Andy __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
(Offline)

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