295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-)

paulraymaekers · 22nd May 2008, 05:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Paul, congratulations and thanks for posting the data.

If I remember correctly, the scrubber data on the CCRB comparison chart stated that the rEvo dual axial was 142 minutes to breakthrough under the CE standard, is this right and how many kgs are in the dual axial version?

And stop beating around the bush and tell us which brand of sorb performed poorly in the cold, inquiring minds want to know

... -Andy

the axial will probably do even a bit better then 142 minutes, but this has to be confirmed in more tests, in the dual axial you have roughly 2.8kg sorb total with standard filling

conc the poor performing sorb: it would not be correct until we repeat the test to see if nothing else went wrong... but we already got this impression in a previous test: also we want to know if this strange behaviour is still there at say 10° celcius

regards
paul

paulraymaekers · 22nd May 2008, 05:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Paul, I didn't see this until after I posted the questions above. So if the axials have exactly half as much sorb and they get 142 minutes, I guess this means that the radials did better by 11 minutes, which at such a high rate of CO2addition/flow should translate into much more than 11 minutes in real world conditions. Your thoughts?

Also, do the CE scrubber test protocol require an averaging of multiple tests, or is it a single run? Thanks, -Andy

Andy, 50% more is not doubble!! :-)

so 2.8 kg 142min (or+) and 4.1 kg 295 minutes (or+).. do the math :-)

and indeed, more tests will be done, after some small changes, to get the 5 hour mark!

paul

paulraymaekers · 22nd May 2008, 05:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

Pual, you mentioned the other day that there should be no difference in radial vs axial capacity to absorb co2 and therefore no appreciable difference, lb for lb, in duration. Am I reading this right that you are now seeing that with a 50% increase in sorb, your radial scrubber has 100% more duration? Are you now a convert? How do you explain the increased efficiency?

In any case, congratulations on your new scrubber design... will it be possible to replace half at a time like on the axial version?

so many rebreathers, so little time!

g

hello Gill, I NEVER wrote there is no difference between radial and axial conc CO2 absorbtion capacity, I always write that the dwell time is only function of volume and not of design of a scrubber!!
the difference in absorbtion capacity lies in the thermal behaviour of the scrubber, if you compare scrubbers with the same volume, and the possibility to make a far bigger scrubber with lesser WOB, when going from axial to radial

in case of the rEvo, there is another extreme advantige under these very cold circomstances: in any scrubber design you will always have some less functioning parts (colder area) where less scrubbed gas will pass: in the case of the rEvo, with the dual scrubber, after the first scrubber this part of less scrubbed gas is mixed with the well scrubbed gas from another part of the scrubber, and so an average low CO2 containing gas will enter the second scrubber for a 'final' scrubb

and yes there will be an 'exchance cycle' possible, but we need more testing to get the correct times that we can advice

regards
paul

J. V. · 22nd May 2008, 06:27

Quote:

and not so impatiant!! (??)

Impatient.

And we have to see the end of Landenouze too.
It will be the rEvo II Long Range

***Decodiver*** · 22nd May 2008, 06:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

we also did the same test with another brand of sorb, and at the moment we can only say that under those cold conditions there is an extreme difference in performance between different types of sorb. More tests have to be made to be conclusive, but at the moment it seems a good advice that if you dive in very cold conditions, use the fine grade sofnolime...

I told you so..........

Well done buddy, keep it coming.

Cheers,

Dave.

depth · 22nd May 2008, 06:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

Congrats Paul....

With the unique dual scrubber design of the rEvo, I'm having difficulty wrapping my head how the flow works w/ a dual radial implementation....

Got any stick figures showing how it works?

-Tim

Same problem here! Any graphics or pictures to explain the design?

Thanks

/Christian

Stephane · 22nd May 2008, 07:42

Paul,

Can we have some photos of the cassettes ?

paulraymaekers · 22nd May 2008, 08:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by depth)

Same problem here! Any graphics or pictures to explain the design?

Thanks

/Christian

hey guy's, use some imagination :-)

just a very quick sketch: in the drawing I put both scrubbers in the in->out position (gas comes from inside to outside)
you can easely invert each scrubber so that the gas goes out->in (or put one in->out and the other inverse)
tests must show wich is better conc performance, this is not clear yet

regards
paul

Stephane · 22nd May 2008, 08:07

Thank you Paul.

Does it have the same dimensions than the axial cassette? Or is it bigger?

paulraymaekers · 22nd May 2008, 08:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane)

Thank you Paul.

Does it have the same dimensions than the axial cassette? Or is it bigger?

it is higher ofcourse: you add the extention rings

see how to modify your rEvo to install the radials:
but the film shows it with the big axial scrubber:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY98r44PDrQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY98r44PDrQ

regards
paul

22nd May 2008, 05:00	#21 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,505	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Paul, congratulations and thanks for posting the data. If I remember correctly, the scrubber data on the CCRB comparison chart stated that the rEvo dual axial was 142 minutes to breakthrough under the CE standard, is this right and how many kgs are in the dual axial version? And stop beating around the bush and tell us which brand of sorb performed poorly in the cold, inquiring minds want to know... -Andy the axial will probably do even a bit better then 142 minutes, but this has to be confirmed in more tests, in the dual axial you have roughly 2.8kg sorb total with standard filling conc the poor performing sorb: it would not be correct until we repeat the test to see if nothing else went wrong... but we already got this impression in a previous test: also we want to know if this strange behaviour is still there at say 10° celcius regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

22nd May 2008, 05:03	#22 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,505	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Paul, I didn't see this until after I posted the questions above. So if the axials have exactly half as much sorb and they get 142 minutes, I guess this means that the radials did better by 11 minutes, which at such a high rate of CO2addition/flow should translate into much more than 11 minutes in real world conditions. Your thoughts? Also, do the CE scrubber test protocol require an averaging of multiple tests, or is it a single run? Thanks, -Andy Andy, 50% more is not doubble!! :-) so 2.8 kg 142min (or+) and 4.1 kg 295 minutes (or+).. do the math :-) and indeed, more tests will be done, after some small changes, to get the 5 hour mark! paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials... Last edited by paulraymaekers : 22nd May 2008 at 07:37.
(Online)

22nd May 2008, 05:11	#23 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,505	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) Pual, you mentioned the other day that there should be no difference in radial vs axial capacity to absorb co2 and therefore no appreciable difference, lb for lb, in duration. Am I reading this right that you are now seeing that with a 50% increase in sorb, your radial scrubber has 100% more duration? Are you now a convert? How do you explain the increased efficiency? In any case, congratulations on your new scrubber design... will it be possible to replace half at a time like on the axial version? so many rebreathers, so little time! g hello Gill, I NEVER wrote there is no difference between radial and axial conc CO2 absorbtion capacity, I always write that the dwell time is only function of volume and not of design of a scrubber!! the difference in absorbtion capacity lies in the thermal behaviour of the scrubber, if you compare scrubbers with the same volume, and the possibility to make a far bigger scrubber with lesser WOB, when going from axial to radial in case of the rEvo, there is another extreme advantige under these very cold circomstances: in any scrubber design you will always have some less functioning parts (colder area) where less scrubbed gas will pass: in the case of the rEvo, with the dual scrubber, after the first scrubber this part of less scrubbed gas is mixed with the well scrubbed gas from another part of the scrubber, and so an average low CO2 containing gas will enter the second scrubber for a 'final' scrubb and yes there will be an 'exchance cycle' possible, but we need more testing to get the correct times that we can advice regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

22nd May 2008, 06:27	#24 (permalink)
J. V. Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet rEvo Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Lot & Savoie Posts: 239	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: and not so impatiant!! (??) Impatient. And we have to see the end of Landenouze too. It will be the rEvo II Long Range __________________ -------------------- Jacques NPSFQQA-EDS IT # 007 (remué non agité) Last edited by J. V. : 22nd May 2008 at 07:44.
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22nd May 2008, 06:36	#25 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,181	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) we also did the same test with another brand of sorb, and at the moment we can only say that under those cold conditions there is an extreme difference in performance between different types of sorb. More tests have to be made to be conclusive, but at the moment it seems a good advice that if you dive in very cold conditions, use the fine grade sofnolime... I told you so.......... Well done buddy, keep it coming. Cheers, Dave. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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22nd May 2008, 06:38	#26 (permalink)
depth Christian Rasmussen Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 195	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) Congrats Paul.... With the unique dual scrubber design of the rEvo, I'm having difficulty wrapping my head how the flow works w/ a dual radial implementation.... Got any stick figures showing how it works? -Tim Same problem here! Any graphics or pictures to explain the design? Thanks /Christian __________________ I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not qualified to make my own meg batteries!!! I am not.............
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22nd May 2008, 07:42	#27 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 769	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Paul, Can we have some photos of the cassettes ? __________________ Stéphane
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22nd May 2008, 08:07	#29 (permalink)
Stephane Stéphane Acounis Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 769	Re: 295 minutes till break trough on rEvo dual radial :-) Thank you Paul. Does it have the same dimensions than the axial cassette? Or is it bigger? __________________ Stéphane
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