and now the truth... abouth WOB

paulraymaekers · 13th February 2008, 16:10

hello all,

on monday I passed a day at ANSTI in Southampton.. a very interesting and learning day!

We did extencively test the rEvo both standard, mini and modified mini..

the test conditions: the worst you can have in the CE test!

WOB at 40m depth, breathing at 75l/min, tidal volume 3 liter... no one breaths this way, but ok, the test is the test...

We had 8 setups of rEvo: starting from a classic standard rEvo, completely taped so that nealy no water can flow inside-out the housing, over standard, over slightely modified till highly modified.....

the wob measurements went from 4.96 down till 2.40

remember that the ce max is 2.75, and only sentinel and boris meet it.... till now :-)

the current supplied rEvo's turn around 3.65 joule/liter

so please review your comments on the very bad WOB of the rEvo:-)

remember also that in normal diving conditions, normal ventilation rates, the wob can not even be noticed!

regards

paul

ps.... who published figures of over 7 joules/liter ?????

Stephane · 13th February 2008, 16:20

Hi Paul,

Can you explain us a little bit more about the different machines tested, how they differ from each other, the test setup, etc... and the meaning of the results?

eanxdiver · 13th February 2008, 16:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane)

Hi Paul,

Can you explain us a little bit more about the different machines tested, how they differ from each other, the test setup, etc... and the meaning of the results?

Yes Please. What is this "modified mini"?
-Thanks

paulraymaekers · 13th February 2008, 16:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by eanxdiver)

Yes Please. What is this "modified mini"?
-Thanks

to early to give all the details, some modifications can be done on existing units, some not...

I have to think over what can be done, and what is necessary: on a short term it is clear that we do not have to act immediately, for the current divers under normal diving conditions , the wob is ok

remember that the tests are done in VERTICAL position, wich is the worst for the rEvo, that has a very long and thin backmounted counterlung

in horizontal position the WOB is simply great! :-)

regards
paul

***EBT*** · 13th February 2008, 16:50

Paul,

Is there any chance of you publishing the graphs for the units you tested?

paulraymaekers · 13th February 2008, 18:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT)

Paul,

Is there any chance of you publishing the graphs for the units you tested?

no problem, but i only have them on paper printed, should try to scan them, or ask ian to send them to me

i'll see tomorrow

paul

Hanssing · 13th February 2008, 18:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

the wob measurements went from 4.96 down till 2.40

Congratulations Paul!

I'm glad you used the considerable ressources (time and money-wise) to backup your product. For some reason I dont feel like cutting away with a dremel, and fell fine with the WOB as it is today :-) But we'll see what you think up.

Let me say, that my purchase was partially fueled by asking a guy with exstensive experience with Boris and KISS's, and being told that the rEvo was the favorite concerning percieved WOB, on BMCL lungs.

I read the previously published WOB-figure with interest, and your new one as well - But I'll trust experienced divers as well. The rEvo still rocks :-)

Nicolai - happy rEvonaut

silent running · 14th February 2008, 08:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

the current supplied rEvo's turn around 3.65 joule/liter

regards

paul

Hi Paul, good work posting ANSTI figures, should be a requirement.

Is the 3.65 j/l the restive load figure?

And is the 2.40 kPa a peak to peak at the mouth measurement? Thanks, -Andy

paulraymaekers · 14th February 2008, 12:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Paul, good work posting ANSTI figures, should be a requirement.

Is the 3.65 j/l the restive load figure?

And is the 2.40 kPa a peak to peak at the mouth measurement? Thanks, -Andy

andy, all figures are WOB, so j/l !!

the pressure is another story: there the orientation of the unit plays the biggest role: vertical, with the thin and long counterlung, we always have a higher peak to peak pressure, and inhale and exhale pressure

in the best inhale/outhale pressure we get is arround 30 mBar
the max for CE is 25 mBar

the max peak to peak for CE is 50 mbar: that one we can meet

to get the better inhale/exhale pressures in vertical position lower, a new housing must be designed, and then you compromise on other items...

but remember, we dive horisontally, at least I do most of the time, and in that case the best peak to peak we got is less then 10 mBar !!

paul

paulraymaekers · 14th February 2008, 12:44

some things to study :-)

75l/min at 40 m

see water temp!!! 2.4° !!!

the small lines left and right on the graph give an indication of pressure related to the vertical position of the unit in the test vessel: in horisontal position these 2 lines are +/- at the same hight, and change the complete graph
that is the reason (logic) that breathing the rEvo horizontally works perfect :-), but vertically you get more hydrostatic difference

paul

13th February 2008, 16:10	#1 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,432	and now the truth... abouth WOB hello all, on monday I passed a day at ANSTI in Southampton.. a very interesting and learning day! We did extencively test the rEvo both standard, mini and modified mini.. the test conditions: the worst you can have in the CE test! WOB at 40m depth, breathing at 75l/min, tidal volume 3 liter... no one breaths this way, but ok, the test is the test... We had 8 setups of rEvo: starting from a classic standard rEvo, completely taped so that nealy no water can flow inside-out the housing, over standard, over slightely modified till highly modified..... the wob measurements went from 4.96 down till 2.40 remember that the ce max is 2.75, and only sentinel and boris meet it.... till now :-) the current supplied rEvo's turn around 3.65 joule/liter so please review your comments on the very bad WOB of the rEvo:-) remember also that in normal diving conditions, normal ventilation rates, the wob can not even be noticed! regards paul ps.... who published figures of over 7 joules/liter ????? __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

13th February 2008, 16:20	#2 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 735	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Hi Paul, Can you explain us a little bit more about the different machines tested, how they differ from each other, the test setup, etc... and the meaning of the results? __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered!
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13th February 2008, 16:39	#3 (permalink)
eanxdiver Rather be Diving Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA, SC Posts: 105	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by Stephane) Hi Paul, Can you explain us a little bit more about the different machines tested, how they differ from each other, the test setup, etc... and the meaning of the results? Yes Please. What is this "modified mini"? -Thanks
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13th February 2008, 16:43	#4 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,432	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by eanxdiver) Yes Please. What is this "modified mini"? -Thanks to early to give all the details, some modifications can be done on existing units, some not... I have to think over what can be done, and what is necessary: on a short term it is clear that we do not have to act immediately, for the current divers under normal diving conditions , the wob is ok remember that the tests are done in VERTICAL position, wich is the worst for the rEvo, that has a very long and thin backmounted counterlung in horizontal position the WOB is simply great! :-) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

13th February 2008, 16:50	#5 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,904	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Paul, Is there any chance of you publishing the graphs for the units you tested? __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
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13th February 2008, 18:10	#6 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,432	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by EBT) Paul, Is there any chance of you publishing the graphs for the units you tested? no problem, but i only have them on paper printed, should try to scan them, or ask ian to send them to me i'll see tomorrow paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Online)

13th February 2008, 18:22	#7 (permalink)
Hanssing flap-flop ..... flap-flop Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 370	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) the wob measurements went from 4.96 down till 2.40 Congratulations Paul! I'm glad you used the considerable ressources (time and money-wise) to backup your product. For some reason I dont feel like cutting away with a dremel, and fell fine with the WOB as it is today :-) But we'll see what you think up. Let me say, that my purchase was partially fueled by asking a guy with exstensive experience with Boris and KISS's, and being told that the rEvo was the favorite concerning percieved WOB, on BMCL lungs. I read the previously published WOB-figure with interest, and your new one as well - But I'll trust experienced divers as well. The rEvo still rocks :-) Nicolai - happy rEvonaut __________________ Woohooo - I can change my rEvo! Its going to be bitchin' tricked out piece of gear
(Online)

14th February 2008, 08:02	#8 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,810	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) the current supplied rEvo's turn around 3.65 joule/liter regards paul Hi Paul, good work posting ANSTI figures, should be a requirement. Is the 3.65 j/l the restive load figure? And is the 2.40 kPa a peak to peak at the mouth measurement? Thanks, -Andy
(Offline)

14th February 2008, 12:22	#9 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,432	Re: and now the truth... abouth WOB Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Paul, good work posting ANSTI figures, should be a requirement. Is the 3.65 j/l the restive load figure? And is the 2.40 kPa a peak to peak at the mouth measurement? Thanks, -Andy andy, all figures are WOB, so j/l !! the pressure is another story: there the orientation of the unit plays the biggest role: vertical, with the thin and long counterlung, we always have a higher peak to peak pressure, and inhale and exhale pressure in the best inhale/outhale pressure we get is arround 30 mBar the max for CE is 25 mBar the max peak to peak for CE is 50 mbar: that one we can meet to get the better inhale/exhale pressures in vertical position lower, a new housing must be designed, and then you compromise on other items... but remember, we dive horisontally, at least I do most of the time, and in that case the best peak to peak we got is less then 10 mBar !! paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials... Last edited by paulraymaekers : 14th February 2008 at 12:37.
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