and now the truth... abouth WOB

dave t

And this is the head of the nail so to speak at least the CE standards provide some testing data that we as prospective customers can use to make a decision as to which unit to buy. Whether you agree with that test data, or think its "protective tax" or believe the test is lacking or too narrow (as I do) at least there is test data for some units. The fact that we trust our life to these machines (well at least hold the hand of the devil ) personally I would like to "know" what they can and cant do if I am going to dive the machine.

At the end of the day some testing is better than none at all, irrespective of whether its CE or not

Dave

kevin stone

I am sure that it is much more complicated then I am making it but couldn't we contribute to a fund (like we do Rebreather World) that could provide at least some practical level of testing. This should include WOB and scrubber testing as a min and could have a rating system something like ConsumerReports.org - Find Product Reviews and Ratings from Consumer Reports does.

This could be funded by it's members and or a testing fee for all who want to take the test. I think if a group of prospective buyers set these requirements then the manufacturers would be interested in meeting this standard to help obtain sales.
This group should accept no funding other than a flat donation from its members and maybe a small testing fee, thats it.
This is a temporary measure until some government comes up with a reasonable standard that meets a practical level.

And again thanks to Paul and Kim for the release of data in the past

Kevin

ianfirmin

Can anyone provide a list of CE approved rebreathers? Just out of interest mind....

caveseeker7

Well, the ones you can buy officially:
Dräger Ray and Dolphin SCR
Azimut and UBS40 SCR (maybe Castoro C-96 O2 CCR, too)
Submatix SCR and CCR
Voyager SCR and CCR
Inspiration and Evolution CCR
Ouroboros and Sentinel CCR (latterl may not have it yet, but C2R was having it tested)

Want to get it:
Optima
Meg (when APECS 3 are done)
PRISM II (when it will be build)

Insist it can't be done because they're manually controlled:
Classic and Sport Kiss, rEvo II

All of those are in use in Europe, as are MK-series, the old Cis-Lunars, PRISM Topaz, various Dräger, French and Russian military SCR and CCR units, as well as various passive SCR units, all models where the manufacturers never bothered to pursue CE certification.

Jetsam and rEvo Rebreathers are the only manufacturers that have done any testing to CE standard for the sole purpose of letting their customer know what the results are. And that, imho, deserves a big applause!

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"

EBT

Going from memory, Drager came in under grandfather rights. I *think* Azimuth, Submatix and Voyager have some question over which particular CE standard they complied with

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paulraymaekers

correct, they got there CE before the existence of the 14143.
they would probably never pass the new norm.

and for the others:
Azimut and UBS40 SCR (maybe Castoro C-96 O2 CCR, too)
Submatix SCR and CCR
Voyager SCR and CCR

no comment!

paul

__________________
www.rEvo-rebreathers.com

.... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...

caveseeker7

No comment is good Paul, there are other threads discussing the topic of legitimacy, it would detract from the topic at hand. Let's stay there.

Good work, Paul, thanks for the test results.

Do you have any plans for more testing ... standard and radial scrubbers for example?

__________________
Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"

paulraymaekers

Kevin already tested our standard scrubber (thanks!)

when the twin radial comes out, probably yes, another test

and perhaps an 'upgrade kit' for existing rEvo's for people that want lower WOB at very high ventilation rates.. (not final yet what it would include and I don't think so many people will take it...)

regards
paul

__________________
www.rEvo-rebreathers.com

.... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...

Stephane

One thing that is quite funny with this law is that you can dive an unmodified non-CE unit if it has been built before 1990 (this date I guess is to allow Dräger units to be allowed).
So you can in theory dive an unmodified IDA71 in a club; in practice, I'd like to see the face of the club owner!

But you can dive whatever machine you want everywhere else, the law is only for clubs.

__________________
Stéphane
Hammer-rEvo powered!

ianfirmin

My goodness, this has prompted me to have a look at the whole CE marking thing. What a can of worms!!!

Getting back to the thread, I applaud Paul for giving us some hard information. Real data on virtually any rebreather seems next to impossible to obtain.

Perhaps this is not so important. Paul says wob in normal circumstances varies little between units. So, I suppose, other things (like reliability and suitability for the type of diving you do, cost etc) become more important when choosing a unit.

I wonder if there is anyone out there with the time/cash and equipment to do a set of truely independent tests on the readily available units. A bit like "Which" magazine used to do on dishwashers and the like (are they still going, were they independent?).

Ho hum, better go now. Well done Paul and thanks for the information.

ATB
Ian